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Who is in the wrong - me or my brother?
Raspberry_Queen
Posts: 115 Forumite
The background:
Our dad died fairly unexpectedly in December, with no will. He was terrified of death and dying and was too superstitious to make a will.
My brother and dad lived together with an elderly lady for the past 19/20 years, who is like our surrogate nan and was like my dad's surrogate mum. I live round the corner with my mum (I'm disabled). Since 2011 we have each had a share of 25% of the house as joint tenants after my dad paid Surrogate Nan off - this money came from my mum remortgaging our house with a massive mortgage that we soon won't be able to afford. (My mum and dad had separated in 2001 and a nasty battle followed for the next 9/10 years.). My dad apparently did this because Surrogate Nan wanted to put me and my brother in her will, but my dad was superstitious of wills and suggested this instead. We think they were also hoping to avoid future care home fees. I was not able to talk about it with either of them due to the fact they would have reacted badly to any questions.
My brother is significantly mentally ill, but refuses to seek help due to paranoia about not wanting the authorities to know anything about him. He left school in year 9, and has never worked or been on benefits. He lived off of Surrogate Nan and my dad's money. My brother was always a carer for my dad, who was also significantly mentally ill. He was with him 24/7. He is now a carer for Surrogate Nan, who as of this past autumn has suddenly developed dementia symptoms. The most challenging thing is her repetitive question-asking; she will spend hours asking the same questions while being anxious and angry and not remembering that she's already been answered.
My brother is now essentially living off of Surrogate Nan's money for housing costs, and my mum's money for food costs. My brother doesn't think the level of care is valid to receive carer's allowance, which is wrong as she can't live independently, and emotionally can't cope with being alone, and he even has to warn her before he goes into another room so she doesn't panic. She also needs supervision to prevent her doing anything dangerous.
Due to my brother's mental illnesses he can't seem to cope with doing anything outside everyday tasks, including making his bank account active, sorting out his provisional licence etc, applying for benefits, even though he kind of wants to, just not carer's. He tried to go to town to sort these things out last week while Surrogate Nan was hospitalised, but he couldn't cope and he didn't do anything and just went along for the ride. My brother in general puts up an incredible amount of resistance to any suggestion, any attempts to help him, and any suggestions to do anything at all. He also prevents other people from doing things, even if it wouldn't affect him.
My brother's mental health issues are so profound that they affect his eating and he is underweight, and stunted his growth as a teenager. If he has any sort of symptom, he blames it on the last food he ate. Eg he won't eat celery because he had a headache once so he thinks it gives him headaches. The range of foods he eats is therefore exceptionally limited. He mostly eats foods straight out of packets because he can't cope with the filthy kitchen. He also accepts a large but simple meal from my mum about 4/5 times a week. This meal costs about £3 a time. My mum is terrified of rocking the boat because my brother's reaction to any stress is seemingly to limit his food, even though this isn't conscious behaviour on his part. He becomes too stressed to eat. But we have taken a huge financial hit in the past six months (our cat also died in the summer after expensive failed surgery), we all paid our bit including my mum paying £4300 and it's not even her cat. We can't afford to keep feeding him. I'm pretty sure my mum also buys him all of his packet foods. We're worried if we upset him at all he will starve himself.
Which brings me to the actual issue I'm asking about: our dad was a hoarder, and the house is filled with a mixture of junk and actual valuables. I was worried my brother would become a hoarder too, but he seemed very eager to get rid of things, even personal things like clothes. We were both always in agreement that we need to sell the valuables, and split the resulting money in half.
This past couple of weeks, I searched for collectors/antiques fairs nearby to sell the valuables, phoned two up and asked how to book a stall, what to bring etc, and eagerly told my mum and brother. However, as I found out on Friday, they didn't think I had actually done it, despite me keep asking if I can go round there to sort out the valuables. Also despite me rebooking a certain date because it clashed with a family event, and my mum being present while I did that over the phone. I accept there must have been a miscommunication but my brother thinks it's entirely my fault and denies I told them anything. Whereas I think they just don't listen to me. I did tell them and was shocked that they didn't know when I've been happily talking about it the entire time. I obviously assumed they knew what I was talking about when they weren't even listening.
He is point blank refusing to let me sort out the valuables for the fairs (the first one is on Sunday). The first excuse is that he doesn't want to do anything while the loft is being sorted out. I have paid £1900 out of my savings to board the loft and fit a ladder, to put the hoard in the loft and improve their living conditions. This was met with massive resistance at first, then my brother surprisingly "let" me do it. (We couldn't just put stuff in the loft unboarded because there's a large amount of it, also my brother is extremely worried things would get damaged in a normal loft. He also is a bit concerned about fibreglass. My dad was terrified of fibreglass which is why my dad never let me do the loft). This loft boarding is taking absolutely ages and has been going on since last Thursday.
My brother's second reason is that he doesn't trust me to handle the valuables without damaging them. He's very controlling and wants to supervise everything. Other reasons include that he doesn't want the customers to damage things; he doesn't want to sell any special trading cards because it might affect the value if we tried to sell them as a job lot (there are thousands upon thousands of cards and we couldn't sell even a fraction of them at two fairs); and that there isn't enough time now - which is infuriating because he has hindered me all this time.
My brother's attitude is that I need to ask his permission and that he is in charge.
I have spent £38 on a stall and can't get a refund. It is also humiliating and will spoil my relationship with the organisers.
I am fuming that my brother isn't letting me do it and isn't budging. I feel that he is really juvenile and entitled in his attitude to money and has always lived off of other people's money. He has so little life experience that he doesn't even see how selfish and abnormal this is (in his defense, my dad somewhat prevented him from having life-experience). He is now living off my mum's money and we are being drained. We already have a humungous mortgage that we will soon be struggling to pay, and in the last 6 months with the cat and now my dad our savings have taken a massive hit and we don't have much left, especially my mum. My mum doesn't want to say anything because he will starve himself. I really resent how my brother is contributing to our financial strain by refusing to go on benefits, and his absolute ingratitude at everything I'm doing.
I am disabled and it is so challenging for me to get anything done, and despite how silly it might sound it was a huge effort to research and book the fairs. He is sabotaging my efforts essentially for controlling reasons. I resent his entitlement to feel he is in sole control of my dad's valuables, and that he seems to think I am acting entitled for having any claim to them. I resent he is preventing us from making any money back when he has contributed to our financial strain.
I resent that he wants to keep the 6000+ trading cards in perfect condition, when trading cards aren't money and if financial collapse or war happens they'll be beyond worthless.
I resent that he is preventing my access to what is just as much my inheritance as his.
Meanwhile, he just thinks I'm badgering him and this whole thing is entirely my fault because I should never have booked the fairs, despite him never objecting and seemingly unbothered by these plans. He thinks I am being entitled.
He is now not talking to me, and didn't let me in this evening when I went round there, which he has never done. I always used to say he is my best friend, but I am now experiencing how families always fall out after deaths.
Our dad died fairly unexpectedly in December, with no will. He was terrified of death and dying and was too superstitious to make a will.
My brother and dad lived together with an elderly lady for the past 19/20 years, who is like our surrogate nan and was like my dad's surrogate mum. I live round the corner with my mum (I'm disabled). Since 2011 we have each had a share of 25% of the house as joint tenants after my dad paid Surrogate Nan off - this money came from my mum remortgaging our house with a massive mortgage that we soon won't be able to afford. (My mum and dad had separated in 2001 and a nasty battle followed for the next 9/10 years.). My dad apparently did this because Surrogate Nan wanted to put me and my brother in her will, but my dad was superstitious of wills and suggested this instead. We think they were also hoping to avoid future care home fees. I was not able to talk about it with either of them due to the fact they would have reacted badly to any questions.
My brother is significantly mentally ill, but refuses to seek help due to paranoia about not wanting the authorities to know anything about him. He left school in year 9, and has never worked or been on benefits. He lived off of Surrogate Nan and my dad's money. My brother was always a carer for my dad, who was also significantly mentally ill. He was with him 24/7. He is now a carer for Surrogate Nan, who as of this past autumn has suddenly developed dementia symptoms. The most challenging thing is her repetitive question-asking; she will spend hours asking the same questions while being anxious and angry and not remembering that she's already been answered.
My brother is now essentially living off of Surrogate Nan's money for housing costs, and my mum's money for food costs. My brother doesn't think the level of care is valid to receive carer's allowance, which is wrong as she can't live independently, and emotionally can't cope with being alone, and he even has to warn her before he goes into another room so she doesn't panic. She also needs supervision to prevent her doing anything dangerous.
Due to my brother's mental illnesses he can't seem to cope with doing anything outside everyday tasks, including making his bank account active, sorting out his provisional licence etc, applying for benefits, even though he kind of wants to, just not carer's. He tried to go to town to sort these things out last week while Surrogate Nan was hospitalised, but he couldn't cope and he didn't do anything and just went along for the ride. My brother in general puts up an incredible amount of resistance to any suggestion, any attempts to help him, and any suggestions to do anything at all. He also prevents other people from doing things, even if it wouldn't affect him.
My brother's mental health issues are so profound that they affect his eating and he is underweight, and stunted his growth as a teenager. If he has any sort of symptom, he blames it on the last food he ate. Eg he won't eat celery because he had a headache once so he thinks it gives him headaches. The range of foods he eats is therefore exceptionally limited. He mostly eats foods straight out of packets because he can't cope with the filthy kitchen. He also accepts a large but simple meal from my mum about 4/5 times a week. This meal costs about £3 a time. My mum is terrified of rocking the boat because my brother's reaction to any stress is seemingly to limit his food, even though this isn't conscious behaviour on his part. He becomes too stressed to eat. But we have taken a huge financial hit in the past six months (our cat also died in the summer after expensive failed surgery), we all paid our bit including my mum paying £4300 and it's not even her cat. We can't afford to keep feeding him. I'm pretty sure my mum also buys him all of his packet foods. We're worried if we upset him at all he will starve himself.
Which brings me to the actual issue I'm asking about: our dad was a hoarder, and the house is filled with a mixture of junk and actual valuables. I was worried my brother would become a hoarder too, but he seemed very eager to get rid of things, even personal things like clothes. We were both always in agreement that we need to sell the valuables, and split the resulting money in half.
This past couple of weeks, I searched for collectors/antiques fairs nearby to sell the valuables, phoned two up and asked how to book a stall, what to bring etc, and eagerly told my mum and brother. However, as I found out on Friday, they didn't think I had actually done it, despite me keep asking if I can go round there to sort out the valuables. Also despite me rebooking a certain date because it clashed with a family event, and my mum being present while I did that over the phone. I accept there must have been a miscommunication but my brother thinks it's entirely my fault and denies I told them anything. Whereas I think they just don't listen to me. I did tell them and was shocked that they didn't know when I've been happily talking about it the entire time. I obviously assumed they knew what I was talking about when they weren't even listening.
He is point blank refusing to let me sort out the valuables for the fairs (the first one is on Sunday). The first excuse is that he doesn't want to do anything while the loft is being sorted out. I have paid £1900 out of my savings to board the loft and fit a ladder, to put the hoard in the loft and improve their living conditions. This was met with massive resistance at first, then my brother surprisingly "let" me do it. (We couldn't just put stuff in the loft unboarded because there's a large amount of it, also my brother is extremely worried things would get damaged in a normal loft. He also is a bit concerned about fibreglass. My dad was terrified of fibreglass which is why my dad never let me do the loft). This loft boarding is taking absolutely ages and has been going on since last Thursday.
My brother's second reason is that he doesn't trust me to handle the valuables without damaging them. He's very controlling and wants to supervise everything. Other reasons include that he doesn't want the customers to damage things; he doesn't want to sell any special trading cards because it might affect the value if we tried to sell them as a job lot (there are thousands upon thousands of cards and we couldn't sell even a fraction of them at two fairs); and that there isn't enough time now - which is infuriating because he has hindered me all this time.
My brother's attitude is that I need to ask his permission and that he is in charge.
I have spent £38 on a stall and can't get a refund. It is also humiliating and will spoil my relationship with the organisers.
I am fuming that my brother isn't letting me do it and isn't budging. I feel that he is really juvenile and entitled in his attitude to money and has always lived off of other people's money. He has so little life experience that he doesn't even see how selfish and abnormal this is (in his defense, my dad somewhat prevented him from having life-experience). He is now living off my mum's money and we are being drained. We already have a humungous mortgage that we will soon be struggling to pay, and in the last 6 months with the cat and now my dad our savings have taken a massive hit and we don't have much left, especially my mum. My mum doesn't want to say anything because he will starve himself. I really resent how my brother is contributing to our financial strain by refusing to go on benefits, and his absolute ingratitude at everything I'm doing.
I am disabled and it is so challenging for me to get anything done, and despite how silly it might sound it was a huge effort to research and book the fairs. He is sabotaging my efforts essentially for controlling reasons. I resent his entitlement to feel he is in sole control of my dad's valuables, and that he seems to think I am acting entitled for having any claim to them. I resent he is preventing us from making any money back when he has contributed to our financial strain.
I resent that he wants to keep the 6000+ trading cards in perfect condition, when trading cards aren't money and if financial collapse or war happens they'll be beyond worthless.
I resent that he is preventing my access to what is just as much my inheritance as his.
Meanwhile, he just thinks I'm badgering him and this whole thing is entirely my fault because I should never have booked the fairs, despite him never objecting and seemingly unbothered by these plans. He thinks I am being entitled.
He is now not talking to me, and didn't let me in this evening when I went round there, which he has never done. I always used to say he is my best friend, but I am now experiencing how families always fall out after deaths.
2
Comments
-
Oh goodness,talk about the weight of the world on your shoulders.I am so sorry you are going through this,and grieving for your Dad as well.
I can't offer much in the way of advice,but first things first.Who has been dealing with the funeral,and starting sorting out what happens with the house,the money and everything,unless it's in joint names.
Your brother's issues need a lot of sorting out,so I suggest you contact adult social care in your area for help and advive.You cannot carry on like this,you will fall apart.Please ask.for help.3 -
Are your parents married?
As the poster above says contact adult social care for both your brother and surrogate nan.
Has your brother's mental health issue been diagnosed? If so, raising your concern to the appropriate service may trigger some action.3 -
My goodness what a mess. This is not really a whose right and whose wrong question it is far more complex than that. The first priority here is the welfare of the old lady because it sounds like her health is in serious decline and needs proper care. Adult social services need to be involved ASAP. Your brother also needs help and getting SS involved with her is going to put him on their radar as well.
As for your father’s estate, his share of the house automatically goes to the surviving owners, but the rest passes under intestate rules. It would appear that your mother and father were still married in which case it all now belongs to your mother (assuming it did not exceed £270k) in which case it is now down to her as to what happens to it.2 -
I totally agree with the others, you can't be handling this - there are so many issues (eg whose mortgage is it? TBH I don't think it is yours?? looks like mum might need some financial help) , social services do need to get involved as otherwise it will all fall apart (even more so)
2 -
Thanks for all the replies.
As an update, my brother is now not eating. I feel a kind of dread/grief because I have never, ever fallen out with him before.
My parents were never married. My mum has been helping out since 2016 when my dad developed heart and kidney failure (caused by his self neglect due to fear of doctors). Before that, my dad and brother didn't talk to her at all. But they have accepted her help since then. Now m brother is talking to her as little as possible, and being rude when he does, because he assumes she's taken my side, when she has actually taken his side.
The mortgage is in my mum's name. It is the house I live in with her.
Me and my brother have been dealing with everything. My dad had no spouse so his possessions all go to us jointly. I feel my brother is withholding me from my inheritance. If he's not going to talk to me any more then I don't know what to do - could I force a sale of these items? I am happy for them to continue living in the house, it's their home and it also prevents Surrogate Nan losing her share in the future to care home fees.
My brother is not diagnosed with anything as he refuses to go to the doctors. He accepts that he has severe depression and OCD. I also think he may have obsessive compulsive personality disorder. He has some kind of eating disorder but not the usual kinds.
Surrogate Nan already has a social worker but their help has been pretty useless, all they did was arrange for people to observe her showering etc to see if she's independent. They determined that she is, and have stopped coming, but she doesn't have a particular issue with showering. She isn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's yet, she says she can't cope with any more diagnoses and wants to wait a while. The social worker happened automatically after she had been hospitalised for a while last year.
My brother would react very badly to being reported to social services.0 -
Got to admit I don't even know where to start with this other than to say you need help and soon.
As for the stall and losing out on the booking fee. Don't worry about it. And don't worry about falling out with the organiser. They probably have a good percentage of people who book and then either need to cancel or simply don't show. They have their fee, they aren't going to be mad at you.I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on Debt Free Wannabe, Old Style Money Saving and Pensions boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
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"Never retract, never explain, never apologise; get things done and let them howl.” Nellie McClung
⭐️🏅😇🏅🏅🏅🏅0 -
Sometimes what people want is not what they need and maybe surrogate Nan needs to have her social workers and/or doctor alerted to the situation. If your brother is looking after himself so poorly, is he looking after her well?Rather than seeking agreement to sell all the valuables, for you and your brother, might it go better if you pointed out that half of them are yours and you were going to start taking your half away?But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,Had the whole of their cash in his care.
Lewis Carroll0 -
I would suggest that surrogate Nan absolutely needs to have her care needs properly assessed.
It seems likely that she may have lost capacity around her finances so if there is no LPA in place then your brother may well be accessing her finances unlawfully.
There is also a potential conflict of interest between his wish to look after someone he probably cares deeply about, but overlooking things are getting out of hand because at the same time he is reliant on her money.Your mother is not helping because she is enabling him.
Whatever the reasons for his reluctance to deal with things, and it may be that it’s less about controlling you, and more that controlling his environment is the only way he can cope at the moment, this is a safeguarding waiting to happen.Does he have any support for his mental health? I do think that alerting professionals should be seriously on your radar.All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.
Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.0 -
Thanks again all.
Yes you're right he is controlling everything around him. He just doesn't understand when this is affecting others.
@elsien my brother doesn't have access to Surrogate Nan's money, her daughter (who lives 6 hours away) has power of attorney. I mean that he's living off her money in that he lives there rent-free, because it's her money that the bills are paid from. My brother doesn't perceive this as a problem because he's lived there for a very long time, nothing's materially changed for him, and it's just some official bureaucratic thing to him. He is too inexperienced to see how bad it is.
He is dutiful and looks after her as well as he can, given that the house is hoarded (this is currently being fixed). I think when the time comes that she needs personal care will be when she needs extra help, as opposed to my brother needing help to help her.
I could talk to her daughter about a care needs assessment, I think we will have a better chance at a useful outcome after she is referred to the memory clinic.
He doesn't have support and won't accept it.0
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