Gifted money for a deposit, but will lose disability benefits please help

calcotti

AlwaysNeedingHelp said:

I am not sure what main disability benefit my mother is on, but I can find out if it's DLA she'll be able to keep that alongside her PIP as it's not means-tested right? 

If she gets PIP that is the disability benefit she receives. You can’t get DLA and PIP.

AlwaysNeedingHelp said:

Due to her unstable financial history, her well-documented addiction, would they still consider it deprivation of assets? 
What if she was somehow able to hold onto the money until we found a home, and essentially then paid the deposit directly for us...would that still be deprivation of assets? 

The issue of deprivation of capital is not clear cut. To be deprivation of capital a primary purpose has to be to increase (or retain) benefit entitlement. If your mother has a history of financial recklessness it could be arguable that giving away the capital is to avoid squandering it due to her incapacity. That might avoid her being treated as depriving herself - but you would lose your benefits until the money was reduced to below £16,000.

Any attempt to be clever might be construed as evidence that with help your mother could manage the money.

All of the above is speculation. Each decision regarding possible deprivation of capital has to be decided on its merits by a Decision Maker.

AlwaysNeedingHelp said:

But she'd lose anything that is means-tested, so universal credit, ESA, housing benefit etc? 

If she gets ESA and UC then the ESA is not means tested. If she has been living with your grandparents she will not be getting Housing Benefit.

AlwaysNeedingHelp

I might be wrong but in regards to deprivation of assets, it says that the definition is depriving yourself of assets for the sole reason of increasing your benefit award, which in this case surely does not apply?

My Mother is in essence helping us to buy a house, she's not doing it for any financial gain, she already gets the highest award available so she won't benefit from it in anyway.  

She just wants to do something nice for us, because she know that she would blow it all. 

elsien

Mum giving 60K away then immediately claiming housing benefit would seem to me to be clear deprivation of assets. 

If mum lacked capacity around finances then she wouldn’t be managing her inheritance herself in the first place. Unwise behaviour and poor spending decisions don’t equate to lack of capacity - there’s many an addict making similar decisions about what to spend their money on every day. 

AlwaysNeedingHelp

elsien said:

Mum giving 60K away then immediately claiming housing benefit would seem to me to be clear deprivation of assets. 

If mum lacked capacity around finances then she wouldn’t be managing her inheritance herself in the first place. Unwise behaviour and poor spending decisions don’t equate to lack of capacity - there’s many an addict making similar decisions about what to spend their money on every day. 

The sole reason for gifting the money, was because she wants to buy us a house.
There was no other reason than that. 

She's got to find a flat because the will stated the house she was living in had to be sold upon my grandparents death.
My mum and her sister are getting 50/50 of the grandparent's estate. 
They are not the ones managing the inheritance, they are the beneficiaries of the estate but it was grandmother's brother (my mum's uncle) who was the executor of the will, and has been responsible for the selling the house. Obviously my mum and her sister are helping as mum is still living there, but all the paperwork etc has to be signed and handled by the executor which is my mum's uncle. 

My Mother was living with her parents (my grandparents) since she got out of prison, as she's a longstanding history of drug abuse and she's never been able to financially look after herself reliably, racking up large debts, lending from sharks and even stealing things to pawn. She has never been financially stable and probably never will be, and she's stated she'd rather us have it than her blow it..which she will. 

calcotti

AlwaysNeedingHelp said:

I might be wrong but in regards to deprivation of assets, it says that the definition is depriving yourself of assets for the sole reason of increasing your benefit award, which in this case surely does not apply?

That is not correct. It says a significant purpose has to be to increase benefit entitlement
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1043785/dmgch52.pdf

52825 DMs have to show the claimant's or partner's purpose was to get benefit or more benefit if they decide claimants or partners have deprived themselves of capital. Getting benefit or more benefit may not be the claimant's or partner's predominant purpose but it must be a significant one. So when claimants give away all their capital to a relative just before claiming benefit their

1. main, or predominant, purpose may be to benefit the relative and

2. intention, or significant purpose, may be to reduce their capital so they can get benefit or more benefit.

poppy12345

AlwaysNeedingHelp said:

My Mother is in essence helping us to buy a house, she's not doing it for any financial gain, she already gets the highest award available so she won't benefit from it in anyway.  

She just wants to do something nice for us, because she know that she would blow it all. 

Yes but she will also be giving away her money to you and you just can't do that and expect your means tested benefits to continue. Wanting to do something nice for you, isn't going to help.

Are you also going to be able to buy a house with £60k? Will you need a mortgage as well? needing a mortgage while claiming benefits may not go in your favour.

Alice_Holt

I would caution you against trying to find a loophole.
The result may be destitution for your mother (and possibly for you).

If you mother gifts you £60k, then a DWP Decision Maker will inevitably deem this deprivation of capital and apply the notional capital rules to her. 
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Deprivation-of-savings-and-other-capital-Universal-Credit

You will be very, very unlikely to obtain a mortgage whilst your income is solely benefits.
Your means tested benefits will stop as you now have savings over £16k.

If you then gift some money back to your mother to pay for her essentials (rent, food), the DWP may deem this deprivation of capital and apply the notional capital rules to you. You would then need to contest this at tribunal.

https://medium.com/@rachel.ingleby/a-guide-to-deprivation-of-capital-income-a5f26cd9188c

‘In my judgment there is no doubt that the test of whether a claimant is shown to have deprived himself of capital “for the purpose of” securing entitlement to … benefit so as to fall within the notional capital provisions … is a subjective one, depending on the evidence about the particular claimant in question.”……The test depends on “whether the securing of such entitlement is shown to have been a “significant operative purpose” of the claimant’s relevant actions in disposing of his capital. A person’s actions may well have more than one purpose, and the existence of one does not necessarily negate another. Thus in order for the regulation to apply the securing of benefit does not have to be the claimant’s sole, or even his predominant, motive or purpose; and it is not a “wholly and exclusively” test.’

Chris_English

AlwaysNeedingHelp said:

elsien said:

Mum giving 60K away then immediately claiming housing benefit would seem to me to be clear deprivation of assets. 

If mum lacked capacity around finances then she wouldn’t be managing her inheritance herself in the first place. Unwise behaviour and poor spending decisions don’t equate to lack of capacity - there’s many an addict making similar decisions about what to spend their money on every day. 

The sole reason for gifting the money, was because she wants to buy us a house.
There was no other reason than that. 

She's got to find a flat because the will stated the house she was living in had to be sold upon my grandparents death.
My mum and her sister are getting 50/50 of the grandparent's estate. 
They are not the ones managing the inheritance, they are the beneficiaries of the estate but it was grandmother's brother (my mum's uncle) who was the executor of the will, and has been responsible for the selling the house. Obviously my mum and her sister are helping as mum is still living there, but all the paperwork etc has to be signed and handled by the executor which is my mum's uncle. 

My Mother was living with her parents (my grandparents) since she got out of prison, as she's a longstanding history of drug abuse and she's never been able to financially look after herself reliably, racking up large debts, lending from sharks and even stealing things to pawn. She has never been financially stable and probably never will be, and she's stated she'd rather us have it than her blow it..which she will. 

The issue here is that your mother has inherited money, which means that she can now afford to take care of herself, so no longer needs the means-tested benefits. She doesn’t get to choose to give her money away and then claim benefits again (in general.)

This is exactly the sort of situation that the deprivation of assets rules were designed to deal,with, people who are able to now reduce their dependency on the state (even if only temporarily) choosing instead to give a nice present to someone and then asking the state to step-in again.

I completely understand that it would be lovely for you if your mother could help you out, but it doesn’t look likely to be an option.