Owe my (soon to be) Ex Employer Money

Duggz0r

Hi All, 

I know this has been asked numerous times but I haven't been able to find a suitable answer.

Long story short, I'm leaving my current employer in the coming month. I currently have a car on a Salary Sacrifice Scheme and had an addendum added to my contract to state that I am liable for any early termination costs etc, which I'm more than happy with.

The sum looks like it's going to be around £6000 (new job is definitely worth this). 

Naturally, my current employer want this amount paying ASAP. I've exhausted ever single option I have, and haven't been able to find the lump sum. I've spoken with my director and advised him that it isn't looking likely that I'm going to be in a position to pay this in full.

He's advised that this needs to be paid by the end of March at the latest and that's all he's willing to entertain. I'm willing to make an offer to pay £250 per month until this is paid off, but they don't want to know.

I'm just wondering where I stand with this, I made what I think is an extremely reasonable offer to get this matter resolved, they don't want to know. Do I now just tell them to either accept it or take me to court? 

The stress it's causing is unreal, just need a sanity check!

emmajones1976

If you have offered to pay £250 per month of a £6k debt to an employer and they take it to court, they will take a dim view of it as you arent exactly refusing to pay it, are you?

Continue to pay £250pm and call their bluff.

Chris_English

I agree that if you are willing and able to pay £250 per month, and have told them this (an dthat you stick to it) then they may grumble a bit but no court is going to order you to pay any more.

If you manage to find the money more quickly once you are in your new job then it's probably worthwhile paying it off more quickly just to be done with it.

One issue to bear in mind is that your current employer is entitled to mention the fact in your reference that you left owing them money. It's be a pretty unpleasant thing to do, but there's no lega reason that they can't say it given that it's true.

Sandtree

emmajones1976 said:

If you have offered to pay £250 per month of a £6k debt to an employer and they take it to court, they will take a dim view of it as you arent exactly refusing to pay it, are you?

Continue to pay £250pm and call their bluff.

How dim a view would be taken depends on the OP's ability to pay, the impact on the company and any contract of employment terms. 

Depending on the contractual wordings it is possible they could dock the final payslip for as much as they can (not sure given its a final payslip that they even have to effectively pay NMW... certainly the 10% cap on retail employees doesnt apply on final salary) and so they are already being reasonable considering anything other than this. 

Only the OP can consider if they can offer more than what they've already put out there... you'd assume the employer doesnt want it going over into the new tax year hence the end of march deadline.

comeandgo

Now I don’t think £250 a month, taking two years to pay back a contractual debt is extremely reasonable.  I do think your employer could go to court but I don’t suppose the court could make you pay it any quicker but the stress of court and risk of bad references won’t do your stress levels any good.  If your new job is worth this amount of debt would your new employers be willing to lend you the money?

Chris_English

Once you;ve paid this off, it sounds ike you really need to get some savings behind you. There are all sorts of unexpected one-off costs that come up in life, and having nothing put aside for them can be the beginning of major problems.

Duggz0r

Thank you guys,

Thankfully reading my contract I don't believe it has a clause to state I consent to them withholding salary so I think I'm safe there.

The company has always been to the point that they have 'money in the bank to cover everyones salary for 18 months', so I'm hoping that could form any defence if required.

Sandtree said:

Only the OP can consider if they can offer more than what they've already put out there... you'd assume the employer doesnt want it going over into the new tax year hence the end of march deadline.

I've said to them that if I were to receive any lump sum, it would certainly be getting used to pay them off sooner, and yes they don't want it going over to the new tax year.

Duggz0r

comeandgo said:

Now I don’t think £250 a month, taking two years to pay back a contractual debt is extremely reasonable.  I do think your employer could go to court but I don’t suppose the court could make you pay it any quicker but the stress of court and risk of bad references won’t do your stress levels any good.  If your new job is worth this amount of debt would your new employers be willing to lend you the money?

I understand your point, I just also don't want to put myself in a position going forward that overstretches myself, hence why I was offering £250pm as I know I'll be able to cover it.

The new job is certainly worth it, however I don't feel comfortable asking for an advance.

Chris_English said:

Once you;ve paid this off, it sounds ike you really need to get some savings behind you. There are all sorts of unexpected one-off costs that come up in life, and having nothing put aside for them can be the beginning of major problems.

I agree 100% that I need to get some savings behind me, unfortunately I fell into the rent trap many years ago and haven't had the salary yet to pull myself out of it. Thankfully however, with the new role, once this is sorted, I'll be in a position to put money away each month for these sort of emergencies.

TELLIT01

The fact that the OP feels leaving for another job with a £6k debt to the current employer would suggest to me that the new job is paying far more than the current one.  If that is the case then an offer of £250 per month starts to look even more unreasonable.

Duggz0r

TELLIT01 said:

The fact that the OP feels leaving for another job with a £6k debt to the current employer would suggest to me that the new job is paying far more than the current one.  If that is the case then an offer of £250 per month starts to look even more unreasonable.

Whilst the new role is paying more than the current one, it isn't a great deal more and certainly not the reason I am leaving. The reason is a combination of career growth, happiness etc, I would have taken the new role even if it was for the same salary or less.

What would you suggest is a reasonable offer? 

Also, £6k to someone who has lets say £100k in savings, isn't going to be missed nearly as much as £6k to someone with none.

Marcon

Duggz0r said:

Thank you guys,

1. Thankfully reading my contract I don't believe it has a clause to state I consent to them withholding salary so I think I'm safe there.

2. The company has always been to the point that they have 'money in the bank to cover everyones salary for 18 months', so I'm hoping that could form any defence if required.

Sandtree said:

Only the OP can consider if they can offer more than what they've already put out there... you'd assume the employer doesnt want it going over into the new tax year hence the end of march deadline.

I've said to them that if I were to receive any lump sum, it would certainly be getting used to pay them off sooner, and 3. yes they don't want it going over to the new tax year.

1. An employer may be able to make a deduction where you've agreed to (re)pay something if you owe them money at the time you leave. See https://www.acas.org.uk/check-if-your-employer-can-make-deductions-from-your-wages
2. Irrelevant, given that you've got the agreement to early termination costs as an addendum to your contract
3. In which case it would be simplicity itself for them to go this route after you've left: https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money

You might think it's an 'extremely reasonable' offer, but I can see why your employer wouldn't agree. What's remotely attractive to them about having to deal with a two-year repayment period? 

comeandgo said:

Now I don’t think £250 a month, taking two years to pay back a contractual debt is extremely reasonable.  I do think your employer could go to court but I don’t suppose the court could make you pay it any quicker but the stress of court and risk of bad references won’t do your stress levels any good.  

Ever heard of a garnishee order?


OP, I can understand why this is causing so much stress, but I don't think you can rely on any of the posts here (and I include my own in that) to give you definitive advice. Nobody here has seen the paperwork and, crucially, doesn't know what your employer would do if push came to shove. I'd certainly have a word with Citizens Advice or ACAS (doubtless someone will be along to jeer at that suggestion, but plenty of people find their Helpline helpful) to ensure you really do have an accurate picture of your own legal position before trying to negotiate further with your employer.