COVID Cancellation rights - KLM

Eborexile

I apologise for the length of this post but I'm not sure which factors are relevant.
Family issues mean that I am only now starting to claim refunds and compensation.

I was overseas (Japan) when KLM cancelled my return flights Tokyo-Amsterdam-Teesside.
My wife had a booking through a travel agent who was able to reschedule at no extra cost.
I had booked through the KLM App which didn't work to allow me to reschedule and I ended up having to buy new tickets.
Two booking references were needed as I couldn't get their system to link the flights.
(The new flights were rescheduled several times in a very stressful period for everyone.) 

The return route Tokyo-Amsterdam-Newcastle was much more (£250+) expensive than the original ticket but I felt I had no choice as KLM didn't respond when trying to organise through WhatsApp as directed by their website. (I can somewhat sympathise)
I'm guessing that I cannot claim the differential between the two tickets.

What made it worse; the flight 01/04/2020 to Newcastle was cancelled which left us stranded in Amsterdam at four in the morning. 
Without support we managed to book ourselves into a hotel and I have claimed for this cost.   
KLM re-booked us onto a flight on the following day.

For the cancelled flight to Newcastle I have made a claim for compensation.
However I have received the following reply - is this the end of my claim?

"...However, the EU passenger rights framework exempts airlines from paying compensation under certain extraordinary circumstances and the European Commission confirmed already that Covid-19 inspired flight disruptions fall under this exception. We therefore regret that since your flight was cancelled for the aforementioned reason, this is not a situation where there is an entitlement to further compensation."

onashoestring

@Eborexile you may be better to start you own thread - what were the dates of your flight and when did you book them ? 

eskbanker

For the cancellation of the original flights, KLM were obliged by the EU rules to get you back at no additional cost (8(b)), and likewise when they cancelled the Amsterdam-Newcastle leg, they were obliged to reimburse the hotel cost under 9(1)(b):

Article 5

Cancellation

1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:

(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and

(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c);

[...]

Article 8

Right to reimbursement or re-routing

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:

(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity;

[...]

Article 9

Right to care

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:

(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;

(b) hotel accommodation in cases

- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or

- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;

(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).

Their reply is sort of correct in that there is no compensation payable as such, due to the exceptional circumstances (as per 5(3)), but that just means that they're not required to make the lump sum payments that would otherwise have applied under Article 7.  However, they are still required to reimburse your direct costs incurred as a result of not being able to contact them to get them to rearrange the flights that they'd have had to pay for, so I believe you're entitled to the additional cost of the replacement flights and the hotel - you just need to make it clear that it's not compensation you're seeking but reimbursement of out-of-pocket costs that they should have picked up in the first place.

You presumably have some sort of evidence of the unsuccessful attempts to contact them at the time?

Eborexile

Onashoestring and eskbanker thank you for your replies.

I made the 1st April booking on the 27th March and have a copy of my Whats App transcript.

eskbanker 
I will try for "reimbursement" rather than compensation.
I hadn't considered that as an option for the on cost. 

(I don't have any evidence that coronavirus is the reason for the 1st April cancellation when the flight on 2nd April was possible but exceptional circumstances rather than empty plane, which might still fall under that category, is certainly plausible.

Once again thanks for your kind consideration.

I'm not sure of the etiquette regarding new threads.

Eborexile

Quick update: KLM quickly responded to the claim for hotel costs but paid a sterling amount as a converted euro value - so need them to make up the difference.
The other claims for reimbursement are in the black hole of their procedures.
I'm working on the principle that giving them a month to respond is reasonable but not sure what to do after that.

Thrugelmir

Eborexile said:

Quick update: KLM quickly responded to the claim for hotel costs but paid a sterling amount as a converted euro value - so need them to make up the difference.
The other claims for reimbursement are in the black hole of their procedures.
I'm working on the principle that giving them a month to respond is reasonable but not sure what to do after that.

Was the hotel cost incurred in Euro's? 

CKhalvashi

Eborexile said:

Quick update: KLM quickly responded to the claim for hotel costs but paid a sterling amount as a converted euro value - so need them to make up the difference.
The other claims for reimbursement are in the black hole of their procedures.
I'm working on the principle that giving them a month to respond is reasonable but not sure what to do after that.

If the cost was incurred in Euro (meaning the invoice amount), I'd expect it to be paid to you in Euro.

This is definitely my experience when dealing with companies. Sometimes I've come up on this one, sometimes I've lost, however never by significant amounts and in general it balances out overall. That said, long term I've been more international than most in both personal and business relationships, so for a one off it may seem unfair but I don't know what it can be expected for KLM to do.

Eborexile

CKhalvashi said:

Eborexile said:

Quick update: KLM quickly responded to the claim for hotel costs but paid a sterling amount as a converted euro value - so need them to make up the difference.
The other claims for reimbursement are in the black hole of their procedures.
I'm working on the principle that giving them a month to respond is reasonable but not sure what to do after that.

If the cost was incurred in Euro (meaning the invoice amount), I'd expect it to be paid to you in Euro.

This is definitely my experience when dealing with companies. Sometimes I've come up on this one, sometimes I've lost, however never by significant amounts and in general it balances out overall. That said, long term I've been more international than most in both personal and business relationships, so for a one off it may seem unfair but I don't know what it can be expected for KLM to do.

Thanks for your reply.
No the hotel cost was declared in pounds I supplied my credit card bill to KLM clearly showing the sterling value.
They wrongly took that value as a Euro and converted to a new "sterling figure"
If they wanted the original Euro charge to convert to a pound figure I could supply but that wasn't what they asked;and actually I would be a few pounds better off if they did their own conversion.  
I'm not actually wanting a profit just my additional costs covered. At the moment I'm down by 17%.

CKhalvashi

Eborexile said:

CKhalvashi said:

Eborexile said:

Quick update: KLM quickly responded to the claim for hotel costs but paid a sterling amount as a converted euro value - so need them to make up the difference.
The other claims for reimbursement are in the black hole of their procedures.
I'm working on the principle that giving them a month to respond is reasonable but not sure what to do after that.

If the cost was incurred in Euro (meaning the invoice amount), I'd expect it to be paid to you in Euro.

This is definitely my experience when dealing with companies. Sometimes I've come up on this one, sometimes I've lost, however never by significant amounts and in general it balances out overall. That said, long term I've been more international than most in both personal and business relationships, so for a one off it may seem unfair but I don't know what it can be expected for KLM to do.

Thanks for your reply.
No the hotel cost was declared in pounds I supplied my credit card bill to KLM clearly showing the sterling value.
They wrongly took that value as a Euro and converted to a new "sterling figure"
If they wanted the original Euro charge to convert to a pound figure I could supply but that wasn't what they asked;and actually I would be a few pounds better off if they did their own conversion.  
I'm not actually wanting a profit just my additional costs covered. At the moment I'm down by 17%.

In this case, if you're dealing with them by e-mail, contact the team dealing with this to alert them to their error.

You shouldn't be down, so this shouldn't be an issue. It may be worth including a copy of whatever statement it's paid on as proof it's a Sterling amount.

Thrugelmir

Eborexile said:

CKhalvashi said:

Eborexile said:

Quick update: KLM quickly responded to the claim for hotel costs but paid a sterling amount as a converted euro value - so need them to make up the difference.
The other claims for reimbursement are in the black hole of their procedures.
I'm working on the principle that giving them a month to respond is reasonable but not sure what to do after that.

If the cost was incurred in Euro (meaning the invoice amount), I'd expect it to be paid to you in Euro.

This is definitely my experience when dealing with companies. Sometimes I've come up on this one, sometimes I've lost, however never by significant amounts and in general it balances out overall. That said, long term I've been more international than most in both personal and business relationships, so for a one off it may seem unfair but I don't know what it can be expected for KLM to do.

Thanks for your reply.
No the hotel cost was declared in pounds I supplied my credit card bill to KLM clearly showing the sterling value.
They wrongly took that value as a Euro and converted to a new "sterling figure"
If they wanted the original Euro charge to convert to a pound figure I could supply but that wasn't what they asked;and actually I would be a few pounds better off if they did their own conversion.  
I'm not actually wanting a profit just my additional costs covered. At the moment I'm down by 17%.

Just a clerical error then. Naturally they'll be thinking and working in Euros by default.