Workplace Relationships

tom31

Hello all, any advice would be appreciated, perhaps more so from a practical level than an HR perspective but both aspects welcome.

Close knit workplace with perhaps 30-40 employees working as part of a larger organisation. Fairly steady turnover of staff, good mix of old and new employees.

One particular employee is renowned for forming friendships with colleagues within the office and then making romantic approaches to said  colleague’s wife or long term partner. These advances are sometimes rebuked or occasionally successful to varying degrees. Quite worryingly, these advances are often timed to coincide with vulnerable moments such as when the person concerned is aware of a family bereavement or the start of mental health treatment. Said person then uses knowledge of the workplace rota to ensure he can visit his colleague’s wife at a time when they will be busy at work. 

When warned off by colleagues, managers or friends, these advances just become more determined. As an aside, the team work in an occupation dependent on complete trust and confidence with one another, and access to vulnerable people but there is as of yet no suggestion that he has breached professional boundaries.

As you can imagine, this is having a huge effect on morale and cohesiveness within the office. Is there a solution?

lincroft1710

On the assumption that this is not a wind up and to me it sounds slightly unbelievable then if said employee is undermining the trust or morale of other colleagues or behaving in a manner unbecoming of his position or using company information for unauthorised purposes, e.g., personal gain or benefit, then it could be termed gross misconduct and at the very least subject to a disciplinary.

tom31

No wind up here. If the behaviour was non-consenting then the post wouldn’t be up; there are specific laws in place to deal with that issue.

The issue arising is that the behaviour is nominally consenting, albeit somewhat predatory given the predisposition to strike during known periods of poor mental health or bereavement etc. Consensual or otherwise, the actions of this individual are causing unrest in a small team and now affecting output, hence the question being asked.

It would be fair to say that this issue hasn’t arisen before in this setting as there are various unwritten rules concerning gentlemanly conduct, that have previously been followed.

Marcon

Anyone actually spoken to the 'offender'?

Undervalued

tom31 said:

No wind up here. If the behaviour was non-consenting then the post wouldn’t be up; there are specific laws in place to deal with that issue.

The issue arising is that the behaviour is nominally consenting, albeit somewhat predatory given the predisposition to strike during known periods of poor mental health or bereavement etc. Consensual or otherwise, the actions of this individual are causing unrest in a small team and now affecting output, hence the question being asked.

It would be fair to say that this issue hasn’t arisen before in this setting as there are various unwritten rules concerning gentlemanly conduct, that have previously been followed.

I struggle to see what laws have been broken in the situation you describe.

If this happened amongst officers in the armed forces, then it might amount to "conduct unbecoming an officer" but there isn't really a civilian equivalent.

Brie

Many companies will start disciplinary procedures if an employee conducts themselves in a fashion that might be consider to tarnish the company's reputation.  Look at the number of times football hooligans have been threatened with job loss, or CEOs who have excessive speeding tickets or are shown up in the press attending "men's clubs".  All things done away from work and with no connection to the business but will get stated in the press as "John Doe who works for the high street bank called..."

Add to that that the individual is using information garnered from the workplace makes the situation really unsustainable.  I'd say it's getting into misuse of company information or possibly breach of data protection depending on how it has been obtained.  And certainly if this is an individual with any management position and the "hook ups" are partners of more junior employees that is a very clear breach of conduct.

getmore4less

One particular employee is renowned for forming friendships with colleagues within the office and then making romantic approaches to said  colleague’s wife or long term partner

Stop forming friendships and no social outside work.

Warn new people early so the predictor never finds out where they live.

Long term just stop inviting to any external events and stop turning up to events where they will be.

Option : quite word go near my special person .......

Marvel1

I hope I am not wrong here, in work you can't say anything to him.

Outside work however.....

Undervalued

Jillanddy said:

Brie said:

Many companies will start disciplinary procedures if an employee conducts themselves in a fashion that might be consider to tarnish the company's reputation.  Look at the number of times football hooligans have been threatened with job loss, or CEOs who have excessive speeding tickets or are shown up in the press attending "men's clubs".  All things done away from work and with no connection to the business but will get stated in the press as "John Doe who works for the high street bank called..."

Add to that that the individual is using information garnered from the workplace makes the situation really unsustainable.  I'd say it's getting into misuse of company information or possibly breach of data protection depending on how it has been obtained.  And certainly if this is an individual with any management position and the "hook ups" are partners of more junior employees that is a very clear breach of conduct.

I wouldn't agree. If the colleague was vandalising public monuments,  beating up people, or acting in some way illegally then yes,  there might be a case to dismiss, although the employer would have to be very careful because plenty of employers have lost such cases! But "romantic relationships " between consenting adults are not illegal,  and nor is calling around to a colleagues home - unless one is trespassing in some way. 

There would be no way to prove that company data has been used - knowing what shift someone is on is not criminal, and rotas are open documents by necessity. 

Can you provide any case (or other) law that says that "hook ups" between a person and the partner of a junior colleague is illegal or that a dismissal on such grounds would be fair?  Because I regret to say that I know plenty of people who should have been sacked if that is true. But it isn't. You cannot regulate human relationships in the way you suggest, and trying to would be a recipe for a tribunal win. Only if there is evidence that coercion is used would that be a criminal act, and that then would,  if proven,  give grounds for misconduct. 

Unfortunately,  being a sleaze is not a crime. If it were there would be more people unemployable. 

The employer could always "leak" the information into the public domain then sack the employee for bringing the company into disrepute!!!

  

Undervalued

Jillanddy said:

Undervalued said:

Jillanddy said:

Brie said:

Many companies will start disciplinary procedures if an employee conducts themselves in a fashion that might be consider to tarnish the company's reputation.  Look at the number of times football hooligans have been threatened with job loss, or CEOs who have excessive speeding tickets or are shown up in the press attending "men's clubs".  All things done away from work and with no connection to the business but will get stated in the press as "John Doe who works for the high street bank called..."

Add to that that the individual is using information garnered from the workplace makes the situation really unsustainable.  I'd say it's getting into misuse of company information or possibly breach of data protection depending on how it has been obtained.  And certainly if this is an individual with any management position and the "hook ups" are partners of more junior employees that is a very clear breach of conduct.

I wouldn't agree. If the colleague was vandalising public monuments,  beating up people, or acting in some way illegally then yes,  there might be a case to dismiss, although the employer would have to be very careful because plenty of employers have lost such cases! But "romantic relationships " between consenting adults are not illegal,  and nor is calling around to a colleagues home - unless one is trespassing in some way. 

There would be no way to prove that company data has been used - knowing what shift someone is on is not criminal, and rotas are open documents by necessity. 

Can you provide any case (or other) law that says that "hook ups" between a person and the partner of a junior colleague is illegal or that a dismissal on such grounds would be fair?  Because I regret to say that I know plenty of people who should have been sacked if that is true. But it isn't. You cannot regulate human relationships in the way you suggest, and trying to would be a recipe for a tribunal win. Only if there is evidence that coercion is used would that be a criminal act, and that then would,  if proven,  give grounds for misconduct. 

Unfortunately,  being a sleaze is not a crime. If it were there would be more people unemployable. 

The employer could always "leak" the information into the public domain then sack the employee for bringing the company into disrepute!!!

  

They certainly could. But they would need to prove to a tribunal that consenting relationships between adults brings a company into disrepute. I'd almost look forward to seeing that tribunal! People have done far worse and tribunals have supported unfair dismissal claims. So the only damage would be to the women who slept around. And the company. 

Assuming this guy really exists, I'm not at all on his side. But employment is not about morality. Even if it should be. And,  if I am totally honest,  I think that we are on dodgy ground anyway here. The OP has their view.  But nobody owns these women. They make their own decisions. Whatever,  allegedly,  their partner may or may not be going through (and that's open to some question), that doesn't make the women stupid,  vulnerable, or incapable of making decisions.  They do not belong to their partners. They can decide who with and when they entry into relationships freely. Are you suggesting otherwise? Because that would be a hell of a lot more dangerous than a lothario at work. 

Not  prove exactly.

They would only need to show that dismissal was within the range of sanctions a reasonable employer might choose. That sets the bar a good deal lower. 

MalMonroe

This really does sound remarkably like an ITV drama I saw a few months ago. It might still be on the ITV Hub.

I don't believe it. This - "renowned for forming friendships with colleagues within the office and then making romantic approaches to said colleague’s wife or long term partner" is just ridiculous. We're not living in the 1950s any more. And if this person refused to take no for an answer, then surely any person with any sense would have been reporting them to the police.

Harassment, like stalking, is also now a crime and people can be issued with restraining orders. That wouldn't do your colleague's reputation any good. 

Also, like Jillandaddy said, most women are able to deal with unwelcome attention, especially that soft spots that can be kicked thing. I'm also Northern . . . 

And "gentlemanly conduct"?!  As I said, we're in the 21st century now!

All very Walter Mitty, imo.