Bank Account Scammed

sockpuppet

I popped into my online banking on my laptop yesterday morning and saw two large amounts that had been taken out of my savings account earlier that morning (around 5am) and transferred into my current account. These had then been transferred to a strange account number. I immediately called the bank and froze the account/reported as fraudulent.
They asked a few questions- had I spoken with anybody and allowed access to my device (NO) , given out my PIN or details (NO) or been asked to move my money (NO) . This transaction was a complete surprise to me. They said it was to a crypto account. Checking my texts, emails there were no missed messages as regards a new payee, or transaction. At the end of the call they said they couldn’t process a fraud claim as I hadn’t allowed access, and no passwords had been changed. Next step to make a formal complaint if I wasn’t happy. This was a transaction totally out of character on my account, to a high risk payee, of. Substantial amount. I will be making a complaint - whenever they call me! Have reported to police etc. 
After call found a Team Viewer app on my phone (be said this was all done on my phone) so called back/reported/re froze my now re set bank account. I’ve never downloaded this - it’s a fairly new phone - & never even heard of it. Phone now switched off pending a visit to an IT specialist Monday morning.. 
I cannot believe what’s happened. They’ve wiped out my savings!
I need to start a complaint in order to dispute this (& get transcript of first call) can anyone advise any relevant points to raise?! 

Apologies for long post! 

🙏 

cx6

One thing to ponder - even if Teamviewer was installed and it was able to monitor your  banking activity, there would have been 2FA on your account to set up a new payee. How was this bypassed? Which bank are you with?

I assume you do banking on your phone with their app, and sign in using fingerprint? If so teamviewer would not have had access to the app

sockpuppet

This is the confusion, I use fingerprint to open phone, I have voice password set up with the bank (Halifax) and I don’t do transactions via my phone it’s only on there really for checking balances etc etc. it’s the online banking g itself - not the mobile app - I have very few apps on my phone as I hate using it 
I do my transaction on my laptop (a work device so encrypted etc) I’ve been pulled up by them and had to call & verify for £20 transactions before so I can’t believe they just let a large (out of the usual) transfer like this happen. I still don’t know all the ins and outs I need the complaint to get them to investigate as at the moment they are just saying it was I my phone it must have been me (?!) 
Fraud said they sent a text but there is nothing on there and there are texts on there from the day before. Could they have diverted them? 

I still think a text is insufficient security for unusual transfers of this amount - esp as would be to the actual device where it was  being transacted 
I really need to know what i need to be asking them/questioning 
thanks for any ideas/knowledge in this! 

born_again

New phone from where?
Is it your phone number they have listed?
I would ask Halifax to send a text to your phone.

Have you had any texts from your mobile company about sending a new sim or moving?

sockpuppet

It’s a work SIM and had to buy a new phone (from proper phone shop) as old was broken. It’s been fine and no funny stuff until Friday when I logged in to check something and saw what had happened. 

Whilst on phone to fraud they sent two texts with pin which came through. 

In the archive both are there along with the one from when I Initially logged In but nothing from that morning when the transactions were happening
- unless those were diverted or they answered them then deleted from phone -?? 

I don’t have full info of what security they say was done as I need the transcript of my call to report and an investigation (from a complaint but I can’t do it til they bother to call me back from my ticket - could be 2/3 weeks!!! )

I’ve contacted phone supplier to see if they can  retrieve all messages for the period so will see if they can pull anything back that I can’t see.. 

🙏 

eskbanker

sockpuppet said:

This was a transaction totally out of character on my account, to a high risk payee, of. Substantial amount.

sockpuppet said:

I can’t believe they just let a large (out of the usual) transfer like this happen.

If you're seeking input to a complaint then personally I wouldn't major on this point, as a transaction that you consider unusual isn't necessarily going to be trapped by their security algorithms, so no bank is going to accept liability for a transaction being allowed to proceed if correctly authorised, but of course the fundamental issue is that you didn't authorise the creation of a new payee or the transaction.

sockpuppet said:

They asked a few questions- had I spoken with anybody and allowed access to my device (NO)

[...]

After call found a Team Viewer app on my phone (be said this was all done on my phone) so called back/reported/re froze my now re set bank account. I’ve never downloaded this - it’s a fairly new phone - & never even heard of it. Phone now switched off pending a visit to an IT specialist Monday morning.

If you told the bank that you hadn't allowed access to your device but have (apparently unknowingly) installed an app that does allow access to your device then at some point you'll need to declare this inconsistency to the bank.

sockpuppet said:

Fraud said they sent a text but there is nothing on there and there are texts on there from the day before. Could they have diverted them? 

If fraudsters had access to your phone via TeamViewer, they'd presumably be able to (a) read and (b) delete texts sent to it?

The_Fat_Controller

If you are using both a work laptop and phone it would not surprise me that both could be loaded with TeamViewer as it can be required as a business tool.

When you changed phones were you prompted by your employer to download anything specific ?

sockpuppet

The_Fat_Controller said:

If you are using both a work laptop and phone it would not surprise me that both could be loaded with TeamViewer as it can be required as a business tool.

When you changed phones were you prompted by your employer to download anything specific ?

There’s no TeamViewer on the laptop and it’s been fully scanned 
We don’t use it for work at all

No didn’t need to download anything onto the phone for work
It’s only for calls/emails 

sockpuppet

eskbanker said:

sockpuppet said:

This was a transaction totally out of character on my account, to a high risk payee, of. Substantial amount.

sockpuppet said:

I can’t believe they just let a large (out of the usual) transfer like this happen.

If you're seeking input to a complaint then personally I wouldn't major on this point, as a transaction that you consider unusual isn't necessarily going to be trapped by their security algorithms, so no bank is going to accept liability for a transaction being allowed to proceed if correctly authorised, but of course the fundamental issue is that you didn't authorise the creation of a new payee or the transaction.

sockpuppet said:

They asked a few questions- had I spoken with anybody and allowed access to my device (NO)

[...]

After call found a Team Viewer app on my phone (be said this was all done on my phone) so called back/reported/re froze my now re set bank account. I’ve never downloaded this - it’s a fairly new phone - & never even heard of it. Phone now switched off pending a visit to an IT specialist Monday morning.

If you told the bank that you hadn't allowed access to your device but have (apparently unknowingly) installed an app that does allow access to your device then at some point you'll need to declare this inconsistency to the bank.

sockpuppet said:

Fraud said they sent a text but there is nothing on there and there are texts on there from the day before. Could they have diverted them? 

If fraudsters had access to your phone via TeamViewer, they'd presumably be able to (a) read and (b) delete texts sent to it?

It was out of character though and a new payee and a high risk crypto account 
it’s just typical that my bank hasnt stopped payments to crypto accounts like other banks have...

They are aware as I found the app after my first call (he’d mentioned it but I was unaware at that point) so I called them back 

I’m assuming they could answer it (as if was me ) but obviously it wasn’t me and it was a large amount to a high risk payee - so I think relying on just a pin was negligent 
it’s so high risk that other banks won’t allow it 

The police have said this is more common than people know and often people knowingly allow the access but it is often back door like this 🥲

sockpuppet

They told me it was done via the phone and they sent the pin to the device that it was being transacted on.. anyone could have had it 

just a auto call would have helped, as I thought that was the point of the voice auth thing… 

The_Fat_Controller

Is it a mainstream phone purchased from a reputable retailer and did it come in a sealed box and require setting up from scratch ?

Apps do not just suddenly appear on a phone out of thin air, did you check for anything odd during set up ?

Where exactly was the phone when the transactions took place ?