Section 13 Rent Increase

saajan_12

canaldumidi said:

Robbo66 said:

Durban said:

T

Also , can the Section 13 be served within the fixed period but only to take place after the fixed period ie served 29th May so rent increase to be paid from the 29th June which will be the first day of the periodic tenancy or can it only be served AFTER the fixed tenancy has ended? 

yes it can providing the rent increase takes effect after the

• tenancy has become statutory periodic, and

• 'minimum period' following service of the notice has expired

It is quite unusual for a Section 13 to be used for contractual periodic tenancies. You say that your family member has to give a contractual 1 months notice, if contractual then Section 13 is not required only for Statutory periodic.

Does her fixed term become statutory periodic of contractual?

Are you sure Robb66? I do not think a change can be made/proposed to a tenancy, in this case a CPT (possibly a SPT?) before it exists. For example a tenant cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before that tenancy has started (ie during the fixed term). So similarly I believe the LL cannot serve a S13 during the fixed term.

Happy to be corrected if there is precedent or other evidence.

I know this is quoted on the forum quite often, but is there any precedent / other evidence that a tenancy has to start before changing it or serving notices? Other than a logical argument.. 

canaldumidi

saajan_12 said:

canaldumidi said:

Robbo66 said:

Durban said:

T

Also , can the Section 13 be served within the fixed period but only to take place after the fixed period ie served 29th May so rent increase to be paid from the 29th June which will be the first day of the periodic tenancy or can it only be served AFTER the fixed tenancy has ended? 

yes it can providing the rent increase takes effect after the

• tenancy has become statutory periodic, and

• 'minimum period' following service of the notice has expired

It is quite unusual for a Section 13 to be used for contractual periodic tenancies. You say that your family member has to give a contractual 1 months notice, if contractual then Section 13 is not required only for Statutory periodic.

Does her fixed term become statutory periodic of contractual?

Are you sure Robb66? I do not think a change can be made/proposed to a tenancy, in this case a CPT (possibly a SPT?) before it exists. For example a tenant cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before that tenancy has started (ie during the fixed term). So similarly I believe the LL cannot serve a S13 during the fixed term.

Happy to be corrected if there is precedent or other evidence.

I know this is quoted on the forum quite often, but is there any precedent / other evidence that a tenancy has to start before changing it or serving notices? Other than a logical argument.. 

And there was me hoping you'd come along sajaan and know the answer....!

I'm sure I long ago came across confirmation of this (the notice aspect) but can't think where. A law book? An authoritative website (eg solicitor's)?

I'll have to do some research.......

Robbo66

saajan_12 said:

canaldumidi said:

Robbo66 said:

Durban said:

T

Also , can the Section 13 be served within the fixed period but only to take place after the fixed period ie served 29th May so rent increase to be paid from the 29th June which will be the first day of the periodic tenancy or can it only be served AFTER the fixed tenancy has ended? 

yes it can providing the rent increase takes effect after the

• tenancy has become statutory periodic, and

• 'minimum period' following service of the notice has expired

It is quite unusual for a Section 13 to be used for contractual periodic tenancies. You say that your family member has to give a contractual 1 months notice, if contractual then Section 13 is not required only for Statutory periodic.

Does her fixed term become statutory periodic of contractual?

Are you sure Robb66? I do not think a change can be made/proposed to a tenancy, in this case a CPT (possibly a SPT?) before it exists. For example a tenant cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before that tenancy has started (ie during the fixed term). So similarly I believe the LL cannot serve a S13 during the fixed term.

Happy to be corrected if there is precedent or other evidence.

I know this is quoted on the forum quite often, but is there any precedent / other evidence that a tenancy has to start before changing it or serving notices? Other than a logical argument.. 

Any contract can be changed prior to the commencement date if both parties agree but once a tenancy has started you cant vary it during the fixed term however notice can be served during the fixed term as long as it doesn't expire during that fixed term and not served in the first 4 months so I don't see why a rent increase cant be the same again as long as it doesn't come in to force during the fixed term. Sorry I know this is stating the obvious 

canaldumidi

A quick google (well, I use duckduckgo for reasons of privacy..), and Shelter's legal pages say:

Fixed-term agreements

An NTQ can only be served to end a periodic tenancy. An NTQ served by a tenant during the fixed term of a tenancy will be invalid. It will not end the tenancy even if the notice period expires after the expiry of the fixed term.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/how_a_tenant_can_end_a_tenancy/occupiers_notice_to_end_a_periodic_tenancy_or_licence

So far as the S13 is concerned, they repeat what their public website says

The use of section 13 is subject to limitations:

• it cannot be used during the first 12 months (52 weeks) of a contractual periodic tenancy. The 52 weeks run from the start of the tenancy, including any fixed term.[9]

• a notice of increase can be served during the fixed term of an assured or assured shorthold tenancy, but the rent increase must take effect after the:[10]

  • tenancy has become statutory periodic, and

  • 'minimum period' following service of the notice has expired

but no mentionof contractual periodics.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/costs_of_renting/rents_and_rent_increases/rents_and_rent_increases_for_assured_and_assured_shorthold_tenancies#title-1

Robbo66

The OP needs to clarify whether it a Statutory or Contractual periodic as the info he has provided so far is contradictory.

I would like to think that any agent or landlord would know the difference between the two and use the correct notices to reflect that difference or am I just wishful thinking.

martindow

Robbo66 said:

I would like to think that any agent or landlord would know the difference between the two and use the correct notices to reflect that difference or am I just wishful thinking.

I think it is definitely wishful thinking!

theartfullodger

Robbo66 said:

...

I would like to think that any agent or landlord would know the difference between the two and use the correct notices to reflect that difference or am I just wishful thinking.

Dream on ..

To be an agent or landlord in England requires no qualifications, no training, no criminal records check.

They could all be ex-cons on early release from their sentences in Brixton for GBH and fraud.  Literally.

And the tenants would have no idea.

Artful, landlord since 2000

Durban

canaldumidi said:

Robbo66 said:

Durban said:

T

Also , can the Section 13 be served within the fixed period but only to take place after the fixed period ie served 29th May so rent increase to be paid from the 29th June which will be the first day of the periodic tenancy or can it only be served AFTER the fixed tenancy has ended? 

yes it can providing the rent increase takes effect after the

• tenancy has become statutory periodic, and

• 'minimum period' following service of the notice has expired

It is quite unusual for a Section 13 to be used for contractual periodic tenancies. You say that your family member has to give a contractual 1 months notice, if contractual then Section 13 is not required only for Statutory periodic.

Does her fixed term become statutory periodic of contractual?

Are you sure Robb66? I do not think a change can be made/proposed to a tenancy, in this case a CPT (possibly a SPT?) before it exists. For example a tenant cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before that tenancy has started (ie during the fixed term). So similarly I believe the LL cannot serve a S13 during the fixed term.

Happy to be corrected if there is precedent or other evidence.

OP seems pretty sure it's a CPT:

I have advised them not to be pressured and let it go periodic and when it’s time to move out in October, give them the one months contractual notice that they need to give.

but I agree this may be in doubt.

OP - what is the exact wording in the contract?

I also agree that in most cases a CPT would make allowance for rent increases, but where it does not, a S13 can be used. OP said

I am a landlord myself and have read through the tenancy agreement and the only way the rent can be increased is with a section 13 notice after the fixed period at the end of June or with their agreement. 

So I assume either the contract is silent (hence OP says: "the only way the rent can be increased is with a section 13 notice"), or the contract makes specific reference to a S13 Notice.

OP - which is it?

Thank you 

" For a term of 12 months commencing on 29/06/2021 and then the tenancy continues as a monthly contractual periodic until ended following either party giving Notice. Please see the below termination clause as it contains important information about what you must do to end the tenancy. The term is to include any periodic continuation of the tenancy beyond the fixed term"

This Agreement creates a single tenancy that starts with a fixed term and then becomes monthly periodic. This would normally guarantee both parties rights and obligations for the fixed term and a minimum of one monthly period. The following two clauses allow either party to terminate the agreement earlier than that date, but not before the end of the initial fixed term: T1: The Landlord may bring the tenancy to an end at, or any time after, the expiry of the fixed term by giving to the Tenant at least two months’ written notice stating that the Landlord requires possession of the Property. A notice under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 will suffice to implement this sub-clause. Such a notice can be served at the earliest at the commencement of month 5 on the first ever agreed tenancy or at any time during the tenancy on any subsequently agreed renewals. T2: The Tenant may bring the tenancy to an end at, or any time after, but not before, the expiry of the fixed term by giving the Landlord at least one month’s written notice stating that the Tenant wishes to vacate the Property. A letter will suffice to implement this sub-clause. While the tenancy is periodic the one month’s written notice must expire the day before a Rent Due date *

"  RENT: £**** per month subject to any increase in the rent which the Landlord may hereafter be entitled pursuant to Section 6 and/or 13 of the Housing Act 1988."

Robbo66

Durban said:

canaldumidi said:

Robbo66 said:

Durban said:

T

Also , can the Section 13 be served within the fixed period but only to take place after the fixed period ie served 29th May so rent increase to be paid from the 29th June which will be the first day of the periodic tenancy or can it only be served AFTER the fixed tenancy has ended? 

yes it can providing the rent increase takes effect after the

• tenancy has become statutory periodic, and

• 'minimum period' following service of the notice has expired

It is quite unusual for a Section 13 to be used for contractual periodic tenancies. You say that your family member has to give a contractual 1 months notice, if contractual then Section 13 is not required only for Statutory periodic.

Does her fixed term become statutory periodic of contractual?

Are you sure Robb66? I do not think a change can be made/proposed to a tenancy, in this case a CPT (possibly a SPT?) before it exists. For example a tenant cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before that tenancy has started (ie during the fixed term). So similarly I believe the LL cannot serve a S13 during the fixed term.

Happy to be corrected if there is precedent or other evidence.

OP seems pretty sure it's a CPT:

I have advised them not to be pressured and let it go periodic and when it’s time to move out in October, give them the one months contractual notice that they need to give.

but I agree this may be in doubt.

OP - what is the exact wording in the contract?

I also agree that in most cases a CPT would make allowance for rent increases, but where it does not, a S13 can be used. OP said

I am a landlord myself and have read through the tenancy agreement and the only way the rent can be increased is with a section 13 notice after the fixed period at the end of June or with their agreement. 

So I assume either the contract is silent (hence OP says: "the only way the rent can be increased is with a section 13 notice"), or the contract makes specific reference to a S13 Notice.

OP - which is it?

Thank you 

" For a term of 12 months commencing on 29/06/2021 and then the tenancy continues as a monthly contractual periodic until ended following either party giving Notice. Please see the below termination clause as it contains important information about what you must do to end the tenancy. The term is to include any periodic continuation of the tenancy beyond the fixed term"

This Agreement creates a single tenancy that starts with a fixed term and then becomes monthly periodic. This would normally guarantee both parties rights and obligations for the fixed term and a minimum of one monthly period. The following two clauses allow either party to terminate the agreement earlier than that date, but not before the end of the initial fixed term: T1: The Landlord may bring the tenancy to an end at, or any time after, the expiry of the fixed term by giving to the Tenant at least two months’ written notice stating that the Landlord requires possession of the Property. A notice under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 will suffice to implement this sub-clause. Such a notice can be served at the earliest at the commencement of month 5 on the first ever agreed tenancy or at any time during the tenancy on any subsequently agreed renewals. T2: The Tenant may bring the tenancy to an end at, or any time after, but not before, the expiry of the fixed term by giving the Landlord at least one month’s written notice stating that the Tenant wishes to vacate the Property. A letter will suffice to implement this sub-clause. While the tenancy is periodic the one month’s written notice must expire the day before a Rent Due date *

"  RENT: £**** per month subject to any increase in the rent which the Landlord may hereafter be entitled pursuant to Section 6 and/or 13 of the Housing Act 1988."

Thanks for that, so definitely a Contractual Periodic and for a contractual periodic a S13 notice isn't required also when the agreement was signed you agreed to a rent increase as per the RENT clause above. It is clumsily written so I could be misinterpreting it.

If the intention is to serve notice and vacate I personally would just pay the increase for the short amount of time needed as it would take more energy than its worth to fight. If the intention was to stay put then yes worth fighting

Durban

Robbo66 said:

Durban said:

canaldumidi said:

Robbo66 said:

Durban said:

T

Also , can the Section 13 be served within the fixed period but only to take place after the fixed period ie served 29th May so rent increase to be paid from the 29th June which will be the first day of the periodic tenancy or can it only be served AFTER the fixed tenancy has ended? 

yes it can providing the rent increase takes effect after the

• tenancy has become statutory periodic, and

• 'minimum period' following service of the notice has expired

It is quite unusual for a Section 13 to be used for contractual periodic tenancies. You say that your family member has to give a contractual 1 months notice, if contractual then Section 13 is not required only for Statutory periodic.

Does her fixed term become statutory periodic of contractual?

Are you sure Robb66? I do not think a change can be made/proposed to a tenancy, in this case a CPT (possibly a SPT?) before it exists. For example a tenant cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before that tenancy has started (ie during the fixed term). So similarly I believe the LL cannot serve a S13 during the fixed term.

Happy to be corrected if there is precedent or other evidence.

OP seems pretty sure it's a CPT:

I have advised them not to be pressured and let it go periodic and when it’s time to move out in October, give them the one months contractual notice that they need to give.

but I agree this may be in doubt.

OP - what is the exact wording in the contract?

I also agree that in most cases a CPT would make allowance for rent increases, but where it does not, a S13 can be used. OP said

I am a landlord myself and have read through the tenancy agreement and the only way the rent can be increased is with a section 13 notice after the fixed period at the end of June or with their agreement. 

So I assume either the contract is silent (hence OP says: "the only way the rent can be increased is with a section 13 notice"), or the contract makes specific reference to a S13 Notice.

OP - which is it?

Thank you 

" For a term of 12 months commencing on 29/06/2021 and then the tenancy continues as a monthly contractual periodic until ended following either party giving Notice. Please see the below termination clause as it contains important information about what you must do to end the tenancy. The term is to include any periodic continuation of the tenancy beyond the fixed term"

This Agreement creates a single tenancy that starts with a fixed term and then becomes monthly periodic. This would normally guarantee both parties rights and obligations for the fixed term and a minimum of one monthly period. The following two clauses allow either party to terminate the agreement earlier than that date, but not before the end of the initial fixed term: T1: The Landlord may bring the tenancy to an end at, or any time after, the expiry of the fixed term by giving to the Tenant at least two months’ written notice stating that the Landlord requires possession of the Property. A notice under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 will suffice to implement this sub-clause. Such a notice can be served at the earliest at the commencement of month 5 on the first ever agreed tenancy or at any time during the tenancy on any subsequently agreed renewals. T2: The Tenant may bring the tenancy to an end at, or any time after, but not before, the expiry of the fixed term by giving the Landlord at least one month’s written notice stating that the Tenant wishes to vacate the Property. A letter will suffice to implement this sub-clause. While the tenancy is periodic the one month’s written notice must expire the day before a Rent Due date *

"  RENT: £**** per month subject to any increase in the rent which the Landlord may hereafter be entitled pursuant to Section 6 and/or 13 of the Housing Act 1988."

Thanks for that, so definitely a Contractual Periodic and for a contractual periodic a S13 notice isn't required also when the agreement was signed you agreed to a rent increase as per the RENT clause above. It is clumsily written so I could be misinterpreting it.

If the intention is to serve notice and vacate I personally would just pay the increase for the short amount of time needed as it would take more energy than its worth to fight. If the intention was to stay put then yes worth fighting

Thank you. 

So does this mean that a Section 13 is not required at the end of the fixed period to raise the rent and if not , what if my family member doesn’t agree to it? 

The intention is for them to leave at the end of October anyway. 

It sounds like they’ll have no choice but to pay the increased rent for a few months 

My thinking was for them to not agree to it and let the landlord give them a Section 21 but I guess this isn’t going to work ?

Thanks again