No question - just need to vent about my AWFUL vendor!

thirtytoseventy

Ah, the Spousal Transfer Exemption. Thoroughly questionable in moral terms imho, but there it is. With the sums that you've provided I can see how they feel it will be worth it, with a gain of 70k ish, an individual with even a modest income is likely to pay a chunk of that at the higher rate; so if they've suddenly clocked on that they can use two allowances, or if the other partner is a lower earner, well you can see why they're doing it. (The 'new' partner is still treating as acquiring their half at the 2014 price, but I still can't quite believe that this is allowed!) For you though, well, it's going to take a while. I'd be walking, sadly.

p00hsticks

GDB2222 said:

p00hsticks said:

GDB2222 said:

Also, there’s surely no reason to wait for the Land Register to be updated before you purchase. Check with your solicitor, but it’s perfectly fine usually to rely on undertakings from the vendor’s solicitor to sort out the LR in due course.

That's the case to get the LR into the new owners names. But here the seller is talking about changing the ownership of the property prior to the sale. so that they wonlt have to pay as much CGT - so I think that would have to be done before the sale takes place.

Indeed. They complete a TR1. How long will that take? 2 hours, maybe.

And I suspect HMRC would expect the TR1 to have been processed by the Land Registry so that the LR title reflects the change prior to completion - I'm not sure what the current turn around time for that is but I belevie even expedited transfers are currently taking several weeks at least....

babyblade41

Thrugelmir said:

babyblade41 said:

They had the audacity to say that if we re-market they will pull out... so we said "ta ta" They have been in rented since last year , as they haven't actually done anything there was nothing to really pull out of .

They've a costly tenancy agreement to exit. Stalling for time saves money. 

That's exactly what I said , well time waits for no man and I won't be dictated to,  There are 2 more cash buyers waiting in line so they won't be missed 

TripleH

Babyblade41, would you be so bothered if they told you they had a date of 1st April (hypothetically) due to rental contract but in the meantime were working on the purchase?

I don't blame you, they probably think they can get it all done in 2 weeks so leaving to last minute..

GDB2222

p00hsticks said:

GDB2222 said:

p00hsticks said:

GDB2222 said:

Also, there’s surely no reason to wait for the Land Register to be updated before you purchase. Check with your solicitor, but it’s perfectly fine usually to rely on undertakings from the vendor’s solicitor to sort out the LR in due course.

That's the case to get the LR into the new owners names. But here the seller is talking about changing the ownership of the property prior to the sale. so that they wonlt have to pay as much CGT - so I think that would have to be done before the sale takes place.

Indeed. They complete a TR1. How long will that take? 2 hours, maybe.

And I suspect HMRC would expect the TR1 to have been processed by the Land Registry so that the LR title reflects the change prior to completion - I'm not sure what the current turn around time for that is but I belevie even expedited transfers are currently taking several weeks at least....

Other people on this thread have said it will take a year to get this sorted out. You are suggesting several weeks. I think maybe a few hours or days. The OP just gave a rant about how awful his sellers are, without checking how much extra time this will actually add to the transaction.

 I am just suggesting that he checks carefully before throwing away the time and money he has already spent on this. 

babyblade41

TripleH said:

Babyblade41, would you be so bothered if they told you they had a date of 1st April (hypothetically) due to rental contract but in the meantime were working on the purchase?

I don't blame you, they probably think they can get it all done in 2 weeks so leaving to last minute..

Wouldn't mind at all if there was exchange a lot earlier but I hate it when people aren't up front.

The wife had the cheek to tell my agent that all is being done but due process must be followed.  I agree it should and our purchase which started 10 days after has been completed so she can go and swing .

BluecoatRob

Ah, I had no idea this would spark so much discussion! Thanks for all your comments and perspectives, it gives us a lot to think about.

On the question of how long a delay this would add I'm inclined to trust our solicitor, who has been excellent throughout. Her view is that this would be best case a few weeks, worst case six months or more. The best case relies on the land registry expediting the transfer and issuing a new title asap, and also on her persuading our lenders to accept the change, both of which are far from certain. I'm told the land registry are quite erratic at the moment, and our lenders' terms specifically state they require no change of title within six months, so though we'd certainly look into it I'm not hopeful on either point.

I'm not a tax expert, but my understanding is that for CGT savings the sale would need to be completed after the title is issued. I don't necessarily begrudge them the saving, that's their right after all. What I do take issue with is: why couldn't they have addressed this months ago? And if there is a long delay, any CGT accrued after April wouldn't come due until Jan '24, so they're taking a huge risk on hypothetical gains two years in the future. The whole thing smacks of thoughtlessness and naivety to me...

(We've sensed the same thoughtless attitude in other aspects of the sale: they replaced the kitchen and bathroom to increase the sale price, but didn't retain any warranties; they sent us a TA6 form that was so poorly formatted it was illegible; their last tenant seemingly replaced the boiler without their knowledge; they even put up a new front door, but with no FENSA certificate and bizarrely no letterbox. They strike me as the archetypal inattentive landlords...)

The other factor of course is that we're on the cusp of being evicted from our current rental of 7 years. Walking away now would hit us financially - aside from the money already spent since Sept, we'd be forced to sign a new tenancy somewhere else, pay rent and fees and moving costs, etc. As a result, we're strongly incentivised to salvage the situation if at all possible (a big 'if' right now). I'm genuinely convinced that this isn't a malicious act but an ignorant one - they think this is a couple of weeks' delay for the sake of an easy few grand. It hasn't occurred to them that this could collapse the deal, despite their own solicitor's warning of significant delays.

So where we're left is: make it crystal clear to them that this would force us to walk away and hope that they see sense. Otherwise, we're back in the market for a new rental and a new purchase. Joyous times!

Good luck with your sale babyblade, I'm sorry to hear you're struggling too.

I'll report back...

Swipe

I sent an application mid July last year to have a property I registered in my name and it's still not done. The Land Registry has told me it could be 9 months or longer before it's done. Tell then not to do it or you'll pull out.

TripleH

babyblade41 said:

TripleH said:

Babyblade41, would you be so bothered if they told you they had a date of 1st April (hypothetically) due to rental contract but in the meantime were working on the purchase?

I don't blame you, they probably think they can get it all done in 2 weeks so leaving to last minute..

Wouldn't mind at all if there was exchange a lot earlier but I hate it when people aren't up front.

The wife had the cheek to tell my agent that all is being done but due process must be followed.  I agree it should and our purchase which started 10 days after has been completed so she can go and swing .

I agree, it annoys me when people are not upfront and honest. Sometimes it's because they want to catch a buyer and the truth will deter people (the hope is that you'll commit too much to want to pull out) which is the worst scenario.

Having said that, buyers with a change in circumstances part way through the purchase, who go all quiet can be frustrating. Often if they keep you updated, that's enough to keep me happy, its the silence of not knowing that I hate.

eidand

There comes a point when someone has to cut their losses and move on.

I think that time has arrived for the OP.

I would pull out immediately and tell the vendors to come back to you should they change their mind in the next week.

That will focus their minds on what they are actually losing. No one likes to waste time and money but sometimes this happens anyway. It is what it is.