Historic Rent charge

RoseBerni

I’m selling my late parents property 
in the title deeds it mentions the following 

C: Charges Register

This register contains any charges and other matters

that affect the land.

 1      The land in this title is subject to a perpetual yearly rentcharge of

        £2 12 0d (which with others was) created by a Conveyance (of the land

        in this title and other land) dated 19 November 1892 made between (1)

        William Vowles and George Vowles and (2) John Baker.

        NOTE: Original filed.

 2      The Conveyance dated 19 November 1892 referred to above contain  covenants

buyers solicitors want this removed or a deed of variation and want to know who is the rent charge owner 

my parents bought the property in 1976 lived there till 2021 when they passed away 

I am positive they never paid any rent charge 
they paid  £12 a year to SWEB - now western power for access via a gate at the back of the property and I have an up to date licence and payment  and proof of this 
But no rent charge I was close to my parent and they were meticulous with paperwork 

I even have the original deeds wills and probate certificate I can trace the house history right back to when the plot escorts sold and although there is a mention of a rent charge there is no mention of who it’s payed to 

I did some searching of the neighbours deeds via the land registry and they all have the same charge on the title deeds 
when asking the neighbours none of them have ever paid it 

can this hold up my sale 
the buyers are lovely ftb 
I’ve gone out of my way to get gas certificates electric certificates paid for the licence for the gate access  and paid for probate to be done professionally as it was a bit complicated 
I’ve read about indemnity  policies so I’m wondering if I should get one that covers rent charges 

thanks 

dodo1990

In short, yes it can hold up your sale but it depends how experienced your buyers solicitor is with covenants. There are legal ways to navigate them and allow an exchange and completion to go through whilst waiting for updated documents. 

If you are unlucky and have a very picky solicitor who wants all the docs upfront before proceeding like we had in our chain, it could take months. Firstly they will need to find out who the charge belongs to, then put in a request to Land Registry to have the charge removed, wait for a notice to be served to the owner and no objections raised, and then wait for updated docs from Land Registry. 

A common way for solicitors to deal with these is to get indemnity insurance for the buyers while covenants are being removed. 

dimbo61

So the original rent charge owners are long dead and it may have passed on to other members of the family.
They can only go back 6 years and the whole rent charge thing finishes in 2037.
I know as we paid off our rent charge ( in Manchester ) two years ago for about £85

RoseBerni

Thank you 
Well I did some digging through the paperwork and I found a single piece of paper that mentions rent charge and the name and the address of the rent charge owner 
however the address is long gone underneath a multi storey car park and shopping center over 30 years ago 
and googling the  name of the business brings up an estate agent no longer in business 
and if my search’s are correct the person is dead 
this is the only piece of official paper I found with the name on it 
And although the rent charge was set up in 1870 with the covenant 
The info I have dates 1975 mention 2.50 a year 
my parents bought the following year and I can’t see anything in the their paperwork that mentions this payment apart from the original title   deeds  
so do I take this paper to my solicitors and will the fact that I now know who they - even if they are dead under the car park 😂 are affect me getting an indemnity policy 
 

RoseBerni

What happens if you have the rent charge details but they don’t reply or dead 

canaldumidi

RoseBerni said:

....

C: Charges Register

This register contains any charges and other matters

that affect the land.

 1      The land in this title is subject to a perpetual yearly rentcharge of

        £2 12 0d (which with others was) created by a Conveyance (of the land

        in this title and other land) dated 19 November 1892 made between (1)

        William Vowles and George Vowles and (2) John Baker.

        NOTE: Original filed.

 ....

What does the Conveyance dated 19 Nov 1892 say?

RoseBerni

C: Charges Register

This register contains any charges and other matters

that affect the land.

 1      The land in this title is subject to a perpetual yearly rentcharge of

        £2 12 0d (which with others was) created by a Conveyance (of the land

        in this title and other land) dated 19 November 1892 made between (1)

        William Vowles and George Vowles and (2) John Baker.

        NOTE: Original filed.

 2      The Conveyance dated 19 November 1892 referred to above contain  covenant

That’s all it says on the title  deeds 

canaldumidi

RoseBerni said:

C: Charges Register

This register contains any charges and other matters

that affect the land.

 1      The land in this title is subject to a perpetual yearly rentcharge of

        £2 12 0d (which with others was) created by a Conveyance (of the land

        in this title and other land) dated 19 November 1892 made between (1)

        William Vowles and George Vowles and (2) John Baker.

        NOTE: Original filed.

 2      The Conveyance dated 19 November 1892 referred to above contain  covenant

That’s all it says on the title  deeds 

Yes, but What does the Conveyance dated 19 Nov 1892 say? I assume your solicitor has obtained it? If not,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/official-copies-of-documents-registration-oc2

RoseBerni

Yes they have but it’s in very very old italic writing 
I can’t understand any of it 
I spoke to a very helpful man at the LR today who also looked at it as it had been scanned recently - assuming that was the buyers solicitors and he agreed he wasn’t able to understand it either 
it’s like trying to read a bad Victorian novel😂 

RoseBerni

This is just one page of several  pages 

RoseBerni

I am wondering if the covenant is this as it refers to the payment of I think £2 .12 twice a year 
The buyers solicitors have mentioned a rent charge fee 

I managed to find  an original requisition of title paperfrom the buyer before my parents
they bought in 1975 and it has the rent charge on this paper and who it’s payable to 
This lady only had the house for a year and then it was sold to my parents 

 But this address for who to pay the rent charge to no longer exists as it’s a multi storey car park and shopping mall 😂and from what I can search the people in question are no longer alive 

This paperwork was never given to my parents as the bank who had my parents mortgage kept  it all in there vaults so my parents were not aware of it and never paid it  

 I only got this stuff last month when they removed the 0 charge of the title deeds and