Getting to Court

DJI2021

We had a bathroom suite installed by a supposed competent fitter in December 2018 to the tune of £6,000. 
The suite was not fit for purpose, and had many faults. 
We tried to amicable settle the issue to no avail and had to get household solicitors involved. Unfortunately for us the fitter did not have any collateral to claim against as he lived with his partner in her house.
Went through the MCOL channels and had a lot of back and forth, resulting in judgement being passed in our favour and a CCJ placed against the defendant. 
Still made no difference as we have not had any money back.
Having spoken to MCOL, although the defendant paid the fee to have the CCJ removed, the paperwork were filed incorrectly, so the CCJ is apparently still valid and we can now instruct Bailiffs to recover the costs.
Having messaged the high court bailiffs' (as claim is over £6,000) the informed us that we need to pay the fee to transfer up the claim to them, (no issue) but they will first send letters to the defendant stating their intent to recover the debt before visiting.

Our issue is that as soon as the bailiff's send him a letter, his solicitor will just appeal or resubmit the paperwork for the defence etc and we go back to square 1.

There just seems to be no real way to actually get the matter resolved (in court in person / before someone that will review the facts and statements)  and get our money back to be able to have the bathroom rectified to a correct standard.

Totally lost faith in the justice system in this manner. 
The gutting thing is that the defendant lives around the corner and we know that he has brought a 2 year old Audi and has been flat out working through the lockdowns etc, and hasn't fronted up. 
trading standards did not want to get involved, and no matter which way we turn, it seems that we will not be in any position to get it sorted and we are almost resided to that. 


thanks for any input available,...

MalMonroe

When you contact Trading Standards you have to go through Citizens Advice first and there's quite a lot of info in this link -

https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumers/support-advice

You could contact CA to see what they say and if you have any chance at all of getting your money back. 

They say "If you are a UK consumer who has a dispute with a UK trader and have exhausted the complaints process of the trader then you may be able to use ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) to find a resolution. Please call the Citizens Advice Consumer Service on 0808 223 1133 for more advice."

However, I have gleaned from what you are saying that the person who did the work isn't a proper trader with a proper business. And that makes things more difficult, unfortunately, as you have discovered.

Sandtree

You probably should get proper legal advice.

Appeals are difficult to do and cannot be done simply because you dont like the outcome, there are tight timelimits, permission must be granted and you need to show a material error in law or procedure. 

I'm not sure you are really talking about an appeal though or them asking for the judgement to be set aside which would most commonly be used if the judgement was made in default (ie they didnt respond) but they must still show good reason for it (eg you issued to the wrong address)

DJI2021

the trader has a proper business and trades a professional bathroom and kitchen installer. 
We were on the rubbish end of some of his work which he attempted to correct and made it worse. 

After citizens advice told us to speak to insurance, our home insurance lawyers attempted to get it sorted but couldn't as he we were told that although we stood a good and high chance of winning the case, the defendant had nothing to claim against as he doesn't own his house (its in his Mrs name) then we would have to pursue it ourselves through MCOL. 
MCOL was ok, but we are still without anything as the defendant set aside his judgement (supposedly but not by incorrect paperwork) and we can still send bailiff's around apparently.
My issue is that to send the bailiffs around will cost us the transfer up fee, but then they will just send him more letters to which he will have his solicitor challenge and they bailiffs wont actually attend. 

Just looking for advice as to what we can do instead of more letters and costs with no return our end.....

Thank you

bris

The problem isn't the justice system, you got the judgement so they did their job.

But as you have found out rogue traders don't care about the justice system because they know how to play the game.

If you do still keep at this, which you should, but don't  get your hopes up because you are unlikely to ever see a penny of your money back. He knows your coming for him so he hides his assets, the bailliffs will have nothing to find for you.

Your only win is that he will have a CCj against him which will sit on his file for 6 years,  it's not much of a win but it's all you're likely to get.

Sorry but the harsh reality is there is no one here that can help. if the bailiffs cant get him to cough up there is no where else to go, well unless you know a man who knows a man.

Bendy_House

DJI2021 said:

The gutting thing is that the defendant lives around the corner and we know that he has brought a 2 year old Audi and has been flat out working through the lockdowns etc, and hasn't fronted up.

Do you know if that car is owned by him?

tacpot12

It is risky trying to recover money from someone who doesn't have a house, because it is so easy for them to disappear, and to hide their assets. But, they have had their chance to remove the CCJ from the register and this should have now expired, unless they have a defence that the court hasn't heard. Your solicitor should have been able to challenge the court about setting aside the judgement, and if they weren;'t able to do so, then the defendant might had some defence the court wanted to hear. 

I think you are giving up too soon in assuming that his solicitor will appeal or resubmit the paperwork for the defence. It must be costing him to employ the solicitor and to pay the court fees. I would persist with this until you can get the High Court. This could turn out be a waste of money, but you don't know until you try. 

There really is no other way of getting your money back. 

Bendy_House

Unless you have Legal Protection on your insurance - which should hopefully provide a no-cost service if they take it on - the other obvious options are surely Small ClaimsC and Moneyclaim.org. Both of these - as I understand it - are very low cost, so the financial risk to the claimant is minimal.

Once you win, you get the Sheriff's Office involved, and if there's money to be had, good chance they'll get it. Again - as I understand it - this is a low cost, low risk option.

If the guy simply absconds, then at least you've removed a leach from your 'hood. I'd back that up with a report of your successful win on a local Facebook page; a salutary warning to others, and anyone who still knows him.

Sandtree

Bendy_House said:

Unless you have Legal Protection on your insurance - which should hopefully provide a no-cost service if they take it on - the other obvious options are surely Small ClaimsC and Moneyclaim.org. Both of these - as I understand it - are very low cost, so the financial risk to the claimant is minimal.

Once you win, you get the Sheriff's Office involved, and if there's money to be had, good chance they'll get it. Again - as I understand it - this is a low cost, low risk option.

If the guy simply absconds, then at least you've removed a leach from your 'hood. I'd back that up with a report of your successful win on a local Facebook page; a salutary warning to others, and anyone who still knows him.

Guess you didnt read the post where they said their home insurers wouldnt touch it and they already won the MCOL case?

By "Sheriff's Office" are you assuming the OP is in Scotland or are you talking about a random English bailiff company that became famous via doing reality TV @Bendy_House? 

The OP has highlighted that the defendant has already attempted to have the original judgement overturned but it is unclear exactly what happened to that. They want to get a High Court Enforcement involved but to do so the case needs to be escalated and in doing so they are concerned that the defendant may attempt to get the judgement overturned again or appeal it... I'm not sure which part of your post was supposed to be giving advice on what the concerns they are raising?

Bendy_House

Sandtree said:

Bendy_House said:

Unless you have Legal Protection on your insurance - which should hopefully provide a no-cost service if they take it on - the other obvious options are surely Small ClaimsC and Moneyclaim.org. Both of these - as I understand it - are very low cost, so the financial risk to the claimant is minimal.

Once you win, you get the Sheriff's Office involved, and if there's money to be had, good chance they'll get it. Again - as I understand it - this is a low cost, low risk option.

If the guy simply absconds, then at least you've removed a leach from your 'hood. I'd back that up with a report of your successful win on a local Facebook page; a salutary warning to others, and anyone who still knows him.

Guess you didnt read the post where they said their home insurers wouldnt touch it and they already won the MCOL case?

By "Sheriff's Office" are you assuming the OP is in Scotland or are you talking about a random English bailiff company that became famous via doing reality TV @Bendy_House? 

The OP has highlighted that the defendant has already attempted to have the original judgement overturned but it is unclear exactly what happened to that. They want to get a High Court Enforcement involved but to do so the case needs to be escalated and in doing so they are concerned that the defendant may attempt to get the judgement overturned again or appeal it... I'm not sure which part of your post was supposed to be giving advice on what the concerns they are raising?

Yes, I may have missed a bit.

The thread has not been updated, then? Ie, they won the MoneyClaimOL case, and there is some talk of the defendant attempting to have that overturned? So, either they have or they haven't.

If they haven't managed a successful appeal (I didn't know there was such a thing against MCOL or SCC), fork out £90 (max, and only if enforcement is unsuccessful) and let the SO do their work.

Yes, it seems I do mean the 'reality TV' lot, but I was aware of them via forums for this type of issue.

Ectophile

The defendant has to pay every time he wants to get the judgement set aside.  The process isn't free.

And if high court enforcement officers do turn up on his doorstep, it's too late to appeal.  They will want payment that day, and won't be interested in talking to any solicitors.