Caught out by red light camera - around 10 seconds after it went red

justpassingthrough24

Hi everyone,

This morning at around 7am on my way to work, I was stopped at a red light at an intersection. The lights in front of me (which I now understand where a different set of lights) turned green, at which point I proceeded to go. There is a red light camera at this intersection and I can't be sure that I saw a flash, but it must have been a good 10 seconds since the light initially turned red.

I got a gentle honk from a driver turning left onto the same road, and of course then realised my mistake. Thankfully it was early on a Sunday morning, but could have been a lot worse if there were more cars on the road.

Of course this was an honest mistake. The lights in front were green and could easily have been mistaken, as I understand a lot of drivers have been caught out by this particular intersection (and I imagine that's why there's a camera there).

I am a doctor and am worried that due to the time frame in between the lights turning red and me driving, I may be issued a court summon. The law is the law, but a court summon would of course have implications for me. I've been driving for 12 years and never had points or a notice before.

I could really use some advice as my frantic googling since the incident has made me pretty anxious about what's to come! Do I have any leg to stand on by claiming the lights turning green in front of me can be misinterpreted by motorists and this should be made clearer?

Thank you

DB1904

justpassingthrough24 said:

Hi everyone,

This morning at around 7am on my way to work, I was stopped at a red light at an intersection. The lights in front of me (which I now understand where a different set of lights) turned green, at which point I proceeded to go. There is a red light camera at this intersection and I can't be sure that I saw a flash, but it must have been a good 10 seconds since the light initially turned red.

I got a gentle honk from a driver turning left onto the same road, and of course then realised my mistake. Thankfully it was early on a Sunday morning, but could have been a lot worse if there were more cars on the road.

Of course this was an honest mistake. The lights in front were green and could easily have been mistaken, as I understand a lot of drivers have been caught out by this particular intersection (and I imagine that's why there's a camera there).

I am a doctor and am worried that due to the time frame in between the lights turning red and me driving, I may be issued a court summon. The law is the law, but a court summon would of course have implications for me. I've been driving for 12 years and never had points or a notice before.

I could really use some advice as my frantic googling since the incident has made me pretty anxious about what's to come! Do I have any leg to stand on by claiming the lights turning green in front of me can be misinterpreted by motorists and this should be made clearer?

Thank you

You don't really have a defence and I can't see a court summons having anymore implications than a fixed penalty notice, you'll end up with points and a fine. You maybe offered a course or nothing will come of it. 

If you're the registered keeper of the vehicle it's a case of waiting 14 days to see what happens. 

Car_54

If you were caught on camera, then the exact time into red will determine what happens next.

If it was below whatever threshold the local force uses, then you may be offered a course, or a fixed penalty (3 points and £100). Above the threshold, it's court. While a ban is an option, it's extremely unlikely unless there are grossly aggravating circs. Otherwise it's three points and an income-related fine etc. 

As for implications, I can't see three points on your licence bothering anyone much.

Brie

justpassingthrough24 said:

Do I have any leg to stand on by claiming the lights turning green in front of me can be misinterpreted by motorists and this should be made clearer?

I doubt a court would care that you were confused by the lights. You passed all the stuff to get your license and therefore are assumed to know how to drive with care and within the rules.

I must admit it has happened to me and the OH at least a couple of times - not helped by the fact that we both learned to drive originally in a foreign land where things are slightly different.  (which of course is also not an acceptable excuse)   What gets me are the array of turn signals, some red some green, some viewable from a distance but not actually visible when stopped at the intersection. 

As you say - at least there wasn't much traffic and no tragedy as a result.

justpassingthrough24

Car_54 said:

If you were caught on camera, then the exact time into red will determine what happens next.

If it was below whatever threshold the local force uses, then you may be offered a course, or a fixed penalty (3 points and £100). Above the threshold, it's court. While a ban is an option, it's extremely unlikely unless there are grossly aggravating circs. Otherwise it's three points and an income-related fine etc. 

As for implications, I can't see three points on your licence bothering anyone much.

Thank you for the replies.

Do you happen to know what time thresholds have been for penalty vs court?

Any mention of the word "court" I believe will have some sort of implications for me unfortunately, but may just have to grin and bear it.

Car_54

justpassingthrough24 said:

Car_54 said:

If you were caught on camera, then the exact time into red will determine what happens next.

If it was below whatever threshold the local force uses, then you may be offered a course, or a fixed penalty (3 points and £100). Above the threshold, it's court. While a ban is an option, it's extremely unlikely unless there are grossly aggravating circs. Otherwise it's three points and an income-related fine etc. 

As for implications, I can't see three points on your licence bothering anyone much.

Thank you for the replies.

Do you happen to know what time thresholds have been for penalty vs court?

Any mention of the word "court" I believe will have some sort of implications for me unfortunately, but may just have to grin and bear it.

Thresholds are not published AFAIK.

There seems no need for "court" to be mentioned to anyone, unless you do so yourself. There would almost certainly be no requirement for you to appear in person (assuming you plead guilty), and even if you did the media generally take no interest in minor motoring offences. And you won't get a criminal record.

Brie

It will likely take  couple of weeks but certainly less than a month.  In our experience!

justpassingthrough24

I am obliged to declare anything to my defence union and employer. It generally looks bad on our record but as you say, wouldn't necessarily become public. I am probably being dramatic, but it is frustrating.

May seem a silly question, but do these cameras sometimes miss offences? Will hold on and hope for the best!

Appreciate the responses again, thank you.

TadleyBaggie

Regardless of whether a fixed penalty is issued or it goes to court, the maximum number of points for a RLC offence is 3 points (unless they decide to prosecute a careless/dangerous offence). Only the fine will be larger (based on nett weekly income) plus court costs and victim charge.

Tigsteroonie

This happened to Marleyboy about six years ago at a very similar junction layout. He got a notification of it going to court, had no mitigating circumstances so pled guilty by post, didn't have to appear, He was given a court fine plus victim surcharge and 3 points on his licence (now spent). It's a traffic offence, not a criminal conviction. 

Grey_Critic

Should you get a summons then I see no reason why you should not put forward the confusion that sometimes occurs at this particular junction with two sets of lights so close. You are of course allowed to put forward such things in mitigation. never know they might show you a little mercy - transport you to the colonies instead of hanging you.