Smart Meter

Robin9

Verdigris said:

The reasons I don't  particularly want one is the level of control they can use such as "load shedding" (temporary disconnection) with little or no compensation for possible losses and also the ability to administer punishing variations of charge rates at peak times.

The energy suppliers are in the business of selling energy. Why would they cut customers off, except in an emergency? They can do that, anyway, just cutting whole areas off, without the finesse of being able to keep people reliant on medical equipment connected.

................

Quite agree  - the industry has had the means for decades of switching people off by the 1000's and millions at the press of a single switch. - remember rota load shedding ?   

QrizB

minorman said:

couldn't  have  put it  better  myself !  Each suppier can shed individual consumers as they require to meet the power they have brought every half hour. 

... and the following day they'd lose their supply license.

The whole reason for SoLR arrangements is that Ofgem won't countenance customers being unexpectedly cut off by their suppliers. To suggest that any supplier could arbitrarily disconnect customers to meet their own demand management needs is ludicrous.

minorman

" and the following day they'd lose their supply license.

The whole reason for SoLR arrangements is that Ofgem won't countenance customers being unexpectedly cut off by their suppliers. To suggest that any supplier could arbitrarily disconnect customers to meet their own demand management needs is ludicrous."

I doubt whether you would ever manage to get their licence to operate taken away.  The impact of that happening would be disasterous to the company.  In spite of a lot of these so called regulators allegedly having powers, they have very little other than giving whatever company it is a smack on the hand , a fine (which is just another small overhead to the company) and everybody carries on.

Define "unexpectedly cut off".  Load shedding back in the past happened as was said earlier. Blocks of thousands were cut off in a rota system..  I know because I worked as an engineer in the power industry for over 30 years.  These days with the control  potential of smart meters individual households could be switched on and off at will and the response would be that they had a shortfall of supply and it was an emergency.  You got the email about the emergency didn't you ?  Oh no. we chopped you off just as we sent it --- sorry !

Robin9

I too was an engineer at the time of Rota Load Shedding.  What has also been going on while the Smart programme is being rolled out is a huge amount of automation/remote control  of the distribution network and much of it is quite local.

I appreciate that Smart has the built in facility to shed load.

Are we also saying to (say) EDF that because Hinckley has gone off line we will shed those customers that EDF supplied (ie me !)

[Deleted User]

minorman said:

The reasons I don't  particularly want one is the level of control they can use such as "load shedding" (temporary disconnection) with little or no compensation for possible losses and also the ability to administer punishing variations of charge rates at peak times. 

Load shedding - absolutely correct if you voluntarily sign up for a CHEAPER tariff that has an AGREED power limit at certain times of the day. For example, in other countries you can sign up for a tariff with a 5kW power limit. If you exceed the agreed limit the supplier will warn you by various means before disconnecting your property from supply. There is a dedicated number for reconnection. NO SUPPLIER is going to randomly disconnect properties from the Grid even if this was permitted in Law which it isn’t. If load shedding is necessary then it will be done by rota on a regional basis under Government mandate and not via individual smart meters.

Time of use tariffs - again absolutely correct. Yes the Press will concentrate on high peak prices and ignore the much lower mid-peak and offpeak charges. I was on a tariff last year that charged 35p/kWh during the period 4 to 7pm (almost reasonable at today’s prices) and with just a small changes to my usage pattern, I was able to get an average kWh price of less than 10p/kWh.

As more smart meters are rolled out, consumers who elect not to agree to have them can expect to pay a lot more for their electricity with no protection against area disconnections. Use what you want - when you want will come at a price.

JohnB47

As asked before - why do you want a smart meter?

OK, it should mean you don't have to supply meter readings yourself. And it supposedly helps you see what your energy usage is and may help you reduce certain usage to save you money.

But against this, your smart meter may not actually work. Even if it does work with your current supplier, it may stop working if you move supplier. You will save money only if you reduce your usage - nothing directly to do with the smart meter.

I've decided to put off having one for as long as I can, to avoid the potential hassle.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - I'm just happy to take and supply my own readings and keep a track of my usage and bills using a spreadsheet. Put simply, I don't need a smart meter.

Astria

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - I'm just happy to take and supply my own readings and keep a track of my usage and bills using a spreadsheet. Put simply, I don't need a smart meter.

To be honest, even if you have a smart meter you should still take regular readings and store them somewhere as smart meters sometimes fail and when suppliers fail to communicate with your meter they seem to simply revert to estimated readings rather than figuring out why its fail and attempt to fix it.

For me it's simply inconvenience, I've offered a few times for someone to install a smart meter as everything they need is outside - the incoming feed, incoming fuse, both meters and the feed to the consumer unit but they insist that they need access to the inside of the property.

Meanwhile my neighbour had his supply fuse removed because his installation was considered "unsafe", despite working for years with the old meter with no problems.

[Deleted User]

Astria said:

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - I'm just happy to take and supply my own readings and keep a track of my usage and bills using a spreadsheet. Put simply, I don't need a smart meter.

Meanwhile my neighbour had his supply fuse removed because his installation was considered "unsafe", despite working for years with the old meter with no problems.

When smart meters are installed, the installer is legally required to carry out supply safety checks. I have to ask, when did your neighbour last have his electricity installation checked? The recommendation is a check by an electrician once every 10 years. The smart meter installer may have prevented a potential house fire if he noted that the wiring (the tails) were no longer fit for purpose. The argument that the wiring was fine with the old meter is no justification for leaving things as they were.

The supply safety checks for gas require the installer to purge and check each of your gas appliances as the process of replacing a meter allows air to enter the system - again this is for for safety reasons.  The requirement would be the same if your supplied fit a replacement analogue meter.

Sadly, the Government has failed to get across to people why we need smart meters: it is a lot more than just automatic meter readings. Countries across the World are installing smart meters to better manage variable renewable electricity supply with demand and to reduce Grid operating costs. Did you know, for example, that smart meters monitor your home voltage? This is important as renewable energy often has a higher voltage.

Astria

[Deleted User] said:

Astria said:

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - I'm just happy to take and supply my own readings and keep a track of my usage and bills using a spreadsheet. Put simply, I don't need a smart meter.

Meanwhile my neighbour had his supply fuse removed because his installation was considered "unsafe", despite working for years with the old meter with no problems.

When smart meters are installed, the installer is legally required to carry out supply safety checks. I have to ask, when did your neighbour last have his electricity installation checked? The recommendation is a check by an electrician once every 10 years. The smart meter installer may have prevented a potential house fire if he noted that the wiring (the tails) were no longer fit for purpose. The argument that the wiring was fine with the old meter is no justification for leaving things as they were.

The supply safety checks for gas require the installer to purge and check each of your gas appliances as the process of replacing a meter allows air to enter the system - again this is for for safety reasons.  The requirement would be the same if your supplied fit a replacement analogue meter.

Sadly, the Government has failed to get across to people why we need smart meters: it is a lot more than just automatic meter readings. Countries across the World are installing smart meters to better manage variable renewable electricity supply with demand and to reduce Grid operating costs. Did you know, for example, that smart meters monitor your home voltage? This is important as renewable energy often has a higher voltage.

We both have an EICR every year at the same time so I would have thought that would be sufficient.

Yes, I'm aware smart meters monitor home voltage, they also monitor power factor, so they could, in theory start charging more for devices that are inefficient (ie, only use part of the A/C wave form)

Duffers998

I too was moved to British Gas when Peoples Energy failed. Yesterday (02/03/22) I received an email telling me I had to have a smart meter and this was something I agreed to. On BG chat this morning I pointed out that I had no choice in either my provider or the tariff when I was moved and that I did not wish to have a smart meter installed. I also pointed out that BG themselves are not currently offering alternative tariffs. The person on the other end of chat said they have taken me off the meter list and this will not affect my tariff. I have requested the transcript of the conversation and will wait and see.