The finger of blame?

Sea_Shell

Recent Traffic cops episode involved a fatal crash where a motorcyclist went into the side of a car emerging from a side road.  

After investigation tt was found that the MB was travelling at 75mph in a 30 (IIRC) and no action was taken against the car driver, in respect of the crash itself.

Even when the car driver was disqualified!!

Manxman_in_exile

Slightly off-topic but as the OP mentions them, here goes...

e-sooters are a real PITA for pedestrians and drivers.

The city I live in started a 12 month trial* in September 2020 together with Beryl.  Supposedly you can't hire one of these contraptions without a valid driving licence, but it's been quite clear from the start of the trial that this has not been adhered to - half the kids using them must be under 17.

You are also only meant to use them on the road, on cycle-lanes, on carriageways and on other areas where cycles are permitted.  They MUST NOT be ridden on the pavement.  Needless to say, they are ridden on the pavement all the time and pedestrians simply can't hear them as they whizz up behind you.  (i was going to say they must give blind people a scare as they whoosh past, but a blind person might not be aware they've almost been hit.)

When they are used properly and only ridden on the road, they are almost invisible at night from behind.  They have a rear LED that is about the same size as the rear reflector on a bicycle, but it's mounted on the rear mudguard of the e-scooter so it's only about 8 or 9 inches of the ground.  With a rider dressed in all black - naturally - you often can't notice them on the road because the rear light is not in your natural line of sight when driving.  They're a nightmare.

And of course they're meant to be returned to a "Beryl Bay", but half of them are just left dropped on the ground at the end of their journey.

And then... you've got all the privately owned non-Beryl ones which I understand can only be driven on the road if you are insured AND can't be ridden on the pavement.  So why are they sold and how are they sold?

*That reminds me I need to find out what happened to the trial.

Sandtree

Grey_Critic said:

The scooters are a menace - illegal, no insurance, riders underage and no licence and has been said wearing black and no lights.

What chance has the motorist? In Briggate (which is pedestrianised) Leeds a couple of months ago I saw several of them being ridden and ignored by the police. I note that questions have been asked in Parliament but nothing is being done about the situation.

Only a matter of time before we start to see multiple accidents and deaths.

Unless they are the ones under the licensed trials in which case they arent illegal, there is insurance etc

That said, they are being ridden equally badly as the illegal ones around here and certainly some users have been underage

Car_54

Sandtree said:

Grey_Critic said:

The scooters are a menace - illegal, no insurance, riders underage and no licence and has been said wearing black and no lights.

What chance has the motorist? In Briggate (which is pedestrianised) Leeds a couple of months ago I saw several of them being ridden and ignored by the police. I note that questions have been asked in Parliament but nothing is being done about the situation.

Only a matter of time before we start to see multiple accidents and deaths.

Unless they are the ones under the licensed trials in which case they arent illegal, there is insurance etc

That said, they are being ridden equally badly as the illegal ones around here and certainly some users have been underage

Even in the licensed trials, they can't be used on footpaths or pedestrian areas.

Sandtree

Car_54 said:

Sandtree said:

Grey_Critic said:

The scooters are a menace - illegal, no insurance, riders underage and no licence and has been said wearing black and no lights.

What chance has the motorist? In Briggate (which is pedestrianised) Leeds a couple of months ago I saw several of them being ridden and ignored by the police. I note that questions have been asked in Parliament but nothing is being done about the situation.

Only a matter of time before we start to see multiple accidents and deaths.

Unless they are the ones under the licensed trials in which case they arent illegal, there is insurance etc

That said, they are being ridden equally badly as the illegal ones around here and certainly some users have been underage

Even in the licensed trials, they can't be used on footpaths or pedestrian areas.

I would strongly suggest that should be "shouldnt" rather than "cant" as there is nothing around our area of London stopping them riding them on the pavement and footpaths

k6chris

Rules set to come in on 29th Jan as part of 2022 Highway Code.  https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-news/2022/highway-code-2022-updates/

Car_54

Sandtree said:

Car_54 said:

Sandtree said:

Grey_Critic said:

The scooters are a menace - illegal, no insurance, riders underage and no licence and has been said wearing black and no lights.

What chance has the motorist? In Briggate (which is pedestrianised) Leeds a couple of months ago I saw several of them being ridden and ignored by the police. I note that questions have been asked in Parliament but nothing is being done about the situation.

Only a matter of time before we start to see multiple accidents and deaths.

Unless they are the ones under the licensed trials in which case they arent illegal, there is insurance etc

That said, they are being ridden equally badly as the illegal ones around here and certainly some users have been underage

Even in the licensed trials, they can't be used on footpaths or pedestrian areas.

I would strongly suggest that should be "shouldnt" rather than "cant" as there is nothing around our area of London stopping them riding them on the pavement and footpaths

You're right - I should have said "... can't LEGALLY ..."

born_again

Manxman_in_exile said:

And then... you've got all the privately owned non-Beryl ones which I understand can only be driven on the road if you are insured AND can't be ridden on the pavement.  So why are they sold and how are they sold?

*That reminds me I need to find out what happened to the trial.

It is illegal to use a privately owned e-scooter on pavements, cycle paths or roads at present. Under current UK law, e-scooters are classed as 'powered transporters' and as such are treated in the same way as motor vehicles, so pavements and cycle paths are strictly off limits.

They can only be used on private land..

Ibrahim5

I get more upset by drivers surrounded by tonnes of vehicle playing with their phones rather than looking where they are going. Much more dangerous than an e-scooter.

[Deleted User]

The highway code hierarchy changes, a sort of presumed liability, don't mean someone doing something stupid gets off scot free while the driver is penalised. The point is to make it clear that there are penalties for doing things that endanger other road users who are more vulnerable. Someone on a bike or scooter who pulls out in front of a car, with no lights on (note, high viz is not required for anyone, it's just a recommendation) is not going to somehow pin the blame on a driver who was proceeding carefully, legally and didn't see them due to the lack of lights/black clothing