Mis-Sold car that was missing prop shaft- how can I prove this?

Kerry200120

So I bought an Antara back in May 2021. It was advertised on the dealer website as 4x4, given a full MOT, and had been returned to them 2/3 times in the first 6-8 weeks for minor faults. 

We were recently driving the car and noticed it had started to become extremely loud. We took it to our mechanic who we have used for over 12 years and he found that it was missing the prop shaft and the transfer box had blown.

Unfortunately the timing is bad as we are now into our 7th month of owning the car, meaning the onus is on us to prove the prop shaft was not there before it was sold to us. 

The garage are refusing to help and our finance company have offered to send a private assessor out to see if they can find any proof. (Other than a letter from the dealer saying they’re liars, I don’t know what else they expect to find)

Can anyone suggest what I can do to prove my case? 

We have already explained that the transfer box can take months to blow, therefore it must have been removed a fair while before now. But the garage are saying we could have removed it ourself or had it stolen. 

Desperately in need of some help, or I’m left with a £6k finance balance and a broken vehicle. 

Herzlos

Is there anything in the service history that'd point to problems with the prop shaft or 4wd system that'd cause a dealer to remove it?
Does the service history point to a particular garage as being somewhere the previous owner would take it for work? If so, they may know something about it.

I think even if you can prove it wasn't you, you can't really prove it was the dealer and not the previous owner. The dealer should have done some due diligence to see if the 4wd system worked, though.

k3lvc

Similar story here with similar timeline but not sure OP ever came back to tell us the resolution (if any)

Obviously timing is not on your side but unless the assessor can prove it was removed prior to your ownership then you may well end up with a £6k loan and a broken car

Don't suppose you have any details of previous keeper/servicing garages to ask them ? 

sold as a 4x4 but missing propshaft do i have a claim? — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Grumpy_chap

Kerry200120 said:

So I bought an Antara back in May 2021. It was advertised on the dealer website as 4x4, given a full MOT, and had been returned to them 2/3 times in the first 6-8 weeks for minor faults. 

We were recently driving the car and noticed it had started to become extremely loud. We took it to our mechanic who we have used for over 12 years and he found that it was missing the prop shaft and the transfer box had blown.

Unfortunately the timing is bad as we are now into our 7th month of owning the car, meaning the onus is on us to prove the prop shaft was not there before it was sold to us. 

The garage are refusing to help and our finance company have offered to send a private assessor out to see if they can find any proof. (Other than a letter from the dealer saying they’re liars, I don’t know what else they expect to find)

Can anyone suggest what I can do to prove my case? 

We have already explained that the transfer box can take months to blow, therefore it must have been removed a fair while before now. But the garage are saying we could have removed it ourself or had it stolen. 

Desperately in need of some help, or I’m left with a £6k finance balance and a broken vehicle. 

How many miles have you covered in the car since purchase?
What is the age and mileage of the car?
What were the nature of the minor faults resolved by the supplying Dealer?

Proving the prop shaft was not there when the vehicle was supplied to you is likely impossible?
How do you know it was not there when the vehicle was supplied to you, given that the noise only developed recently?  

Given that the finance company have offered to send an independent assessor, you probably need to allow that process to conclude as your next step.
You never know, the outcome from that may be favourable for you?
Are you being charged for this investigation?

I doubt any professional organisation will write a letter accusing another of being liars - that is simply not "Parliamentary language".  I would expect any letter to be far more nuanced.

As for being left with £6k finance and a broken vehicle, what is the cost to repair from your local mechanic?

Kerry200120

Herzlos said:

Is there anything in the service history that'd point to problems with the prop shaft or 4wd system that'd cause a dealer to remove it?
Does the service history point to a particular garage as being somewhere the previous owner would take it for work? If so, they may know something about it.

I think even if you can prove it wasn't you, you can't really prove it was the dealer and not the previous owner. The dealer should have done some due diligence to see if the 4wd system worked, though.

Nothing in service history etc indicating anything to do with it. Trying to see if we can trace previous owner currently though! 

As long as we can prove it wasn’t removed whilst in our possession that’s all we need to do. 

Kerry200120

Grumpy_chap said:

Kerry200120 said:

So I bought an Antara back in May 2021. It was advertised on the dealer website as 4x4, given a full MOT, and had been returned to them 2/3 times in the first 6-8 weeks for minor faults. 

We were recently driving the car and noticed it had started to become extremely loud. We took it to our mechanic who we have used for over 12 years and he found that it was missing the prop shaft and the transfer box had blown.

Unfortunately the timing is bad as we are now into our 7th month of owning the car, meaning the onus is on us to prove the prop shaft was not there before it was sold to us. 

The garage are refusing to help and our finance company have offered to send a private assessor out to see if they can find any proof. (Other than a letter from the dealer saying they’re liars, I don’t know what else they expect to find)

Can anyone suggest what I can do to prove my case? 

We have already explained that the transfer box can take months to blow, therefore it must have been removed a fair while before now. But the garage are saying we could have removed it ourself or had it stolen. 

Desperately in need of some help, or I’m left with a £6k finance balance and a broken vehicle. 

How many miles have you covered in the car since purchase?
What is the age and mileage of the car?
What were the nature of the minor faults resolved by the supplying Dealer?

Proving the prop shaft was not there when the vehicle was supplied to you is likely impossible?
How do you know it was not there when the vehicle was supplied to you, given that the noise only developed recently?  

Given that the finance company have offered to send an independent assessor, you probably need to allow that process to conclude as your next step.
You never know, the outcome from that may be favourable for you?
Are you being charged for this investigation?

I doubt any professional organisation will write a letter accusing another of being liars - that is simply not "Parliamentary language".  I would expect any letter to be far more nuanced.

As for being left with £6k finance and a broken vehicle, what is the cost to repair from your local mechanic?

We’ve covered approx 6,000 miles since we bought it. 

Car is a 2013 with 84,000 on the clock when we bought it. 

The minor problems were 1) windows weren’t going up and down correctly - motor got replaced. 2) Top edge of the boot was warped and worsened in the sun which meant the boot could not be opened. They fixed this. 3) there was a rattling noise when we drove it, they took it in and gave it back without the rattling. No mention of what was done. 

We don’t obviously know this for a fact, however, we have cctv covering our driveway so know nobody has stole it whilst parked over night. Nowhere else we’ve parked it (public car parks etc) have ever really been remote enough or left long enough for someone to manage stealing it. 

Hopefully the independent assessor goes in our favour but as a company their reviews aren’t great so I’m not hopeful. But no we’re not being charged for this. 

We’ve been quoted at least £5,000 for repairs, that’s without labour. But our mechanic has advised that even once the prop shaft is replaced and transfer box replaced, we could then find out there are further problems with rear diff (which could be why garage or previous owner removed the prop shaft in the first place). However we wouldn’t know that till we pay to repair prop shaft and transfer box. Catch 22. 

Belenus

Kerry200120 said:

Herzlos said:

Is there anything in the service history that'd point to problems with the prop shaft or 4wd system that'd cause a dealer to remove it?
Does the service history point to a particular garage as being somewhere the previous owner would take it for work? If so, they may know something about it.

I think even if you can prove it wasn't you, you can't really prove it was the dealer and not the previous owner. The dealer should have done some due diligence to see if the 4wd system worked, though.

Nothing in service history etc indicating anything to do with it. Trying to see if we can trace previous owner currently though! 

As long as we can prove it wasn’t removed whilst in our possession that’s all we need to do. 

Unless you can prove that it was removed under previous ownership, how are you going to prove that?

Proving a negative is usually very difficult and, in this case, after 7 months of ownership, I would say as close to impossible as makes no difference.

Good luck anyway.

Herzlos

k3lvc said:

Similar story here with similar timeline but not sure OP ever came back to tell us the resolution (if any)

Obviously timing is not on your side but unless the assessor can prove it was removed prior to your ownership then you may well end up with a £6k loan and a broken car

Don't suppose you have any details of previous keeper/servicing garages to ask them ? 

sold as a 4x4 but missing propshaft do i have a claim? — MoneySavingExpert Forum

It's quite a common thing on that style of 4x4 to remove a propshaft to dodge 4x4 system problems, and leave it as a 4x2 instead of an expensive bill.

Which is why it's always worth making sure all 4 wheels turn under power before buying it. I nearly bought one which was faulty but my friendly garage spotted it when it was up on the rollers.

Herzlos

Kerry200120 said:

We don’t obviously know this for a fact, however, we have cctv covering our driveway so know nobody has stole it whilst parked over night. Nowhere else we’ve parked it (public car parks etc) have ever really been remote enough or left long enough for someone to manage stealing it.

I don't imagine anyone would steal it, since it's not the same kind of value as a cat converter would be. Someone *might* if they needed the part, but it's unlikely.

Kerry200120 said:

we could then find out there are further problems with rear diff (which could be why garage or previous owner removed the prop shaft in the first place).

That's almost certainly why it's not there. I was hoping the service history or garage would hint at diff problems which don't have paperwork for a resolution to infer that it was removed.