Tracing a lost pension

DollyDawson

The situation is that a friend of mine worked for a very small company, where there was just the boss and him - we're talking hand-written wage slips territory.  He thought he was paying into a pension for 22 years, but he's no idea who the pension company might be and he's not received any statements at all.  He left that company roughly 18 months ago; no mention was made of the pension and he didn't think to ask about it at the time.  I've tried to do some digging for him and found out that his former boss died suddenly a few months ago.  The company was not registered at Companies House and I'm unable to trace the pension through the government website.  I'm aware that at the moment, pensions cannot be traced using National Insurance Numbers, and even paying for a company to look into it seems to have low rate of success.  The boss seems to have played by the rules on most things, but there's always a chance that he didn't do this correctly/or he's pocketed the money.

Any thoughts on what the next steps should be?

eskbanker

DollyDawson said:

The company was not registered at Companies House

....in which case it wasn't really a company!

Did your friend have anything deducted from his pay for NI and/or tax, and if so, is there any evidence that such deductions made their way to the relevant place, as I'm struggling to understand how that would work with an unregistered employer?

https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record

DollyDawson

I wasn't sure how to describe it as anything other than a company - sorry, I suppose business would have been a better description. 

Yes, he said that deductions for NI and tax were made every time, and this would appear to be correct, as I have seen a copy of a P60.

xylophone

we're talking hand-written wage slips territory.  

And what did those wage slips show?

I wonder would it be worth your friend's completing and submitting this form?

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/DPU_SAR_NI?_ga=2.230026460.1544670040.1621021753-1315656139.1609178084

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78377177/#Comment_78377177

Has your friend checked his personal tax account?

https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account

And has he obtained a state pension forecast?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

p00hsticks

DollyDawson said:

Yes, he said that deductions for NI and tax were made every time, and this would appear to be correct, as I have seen a copy of a P60.

I'd suggest he uses the State Pension Forecast proccess to confirm that his NI deductions have actually reached HMRC

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

DollyDawson

xylophone said:

we're talking hand-written wage slips territory.  

And what did those wage slips show?

I wonder would it be worth your friend's completing and submitting this form?

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/DPU_SAR_NI?_ga=2.230026460.1544670040.1621021753-1315656139.1609178084

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78377177/#Comment_78377177

Has your friend checked his personal tax account?

https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account

And has he obtained a state pension forecast?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

I haven't seen the wage slips and I'll definitely pass these things on - thank you.

Marcon

DollyDawson said:

The situation is that a friend of mine worked for a very small company, where there was just the boss and him - we're talking hand-written wage slips territory.  He thought he was paying into a pension for 22 years, but he's no idea who the pension company might be and he's not received any statements at all.  He left that company roughly 18 months ago; no mention was made of the pension and he didn't think to ask about it at the time.  I've tried to do some digging for him and found out that his former boss died suddenly a few months ago.  The company was not registered at Companies House and I'm unable to trace the pension through the government website.  I'm aware that at the moment, pensions cannot be traced using National Insurance Numbers, and even paying for a company to look into it seems to have low rate of success.  The boss seems to have played by the rules on most things, but there's always a chance that he didn't do this correctly/or he's pocketed the money.

Any thoughts on what the next steps should be?

Absolutely no point paying a company to look into it - they don't have access to 'hidden records' or anything else, I'm afraid.

Pensions can be tracked down using NI numbers (via the NI history you get if you make a Subject Access Request - link in xylophone's post above), but only in respect of pensions which were 'contracted out' of the State Additional Pension (SERPS/State Second Pension), which seems vanishingly unlikely for this micro company.

The absence of any pension statements or other correspondence for the last 22 years suggests he was only paying in to the State pension, and that his employer didn't actually 'auto enrol' him into anything when it became mandatory to do so. What makes him think he was paying into a private pension? 

badmemory

It is good that he has kept P60s.  Has he checked that the NI no on them is actually correct.  It would not be the first time that an employer got it wrong from day one & nobody ever checked it.

On-the-coast

Marcon said:

The absence of any pension statements or other correspondence for the last 22 years suggests he was only paying in to the State pension, and that his employer didn't actually 'auto enrol' him into anything when it became mandatory to do so. What makes him think he was paying into a private pension? 

That seems the most likely scenario to me...

if there are no other deductions listed on the wage slips, and the P60 deductions of NI line up with what's online, then there's no need to dig further - beyond checking whether your friend already has reached his maximum State Pension entitlement, and whether there's any benefit in buying some remaining years (particularly partial ones) before it's too late.

dunstonh

It would be highly unusual for a self employed person with one employee to pay into a pension 22 years ago.   

Group schemes needed around 10+ people.  So, the employer would have needed to use an individual plan set up by the employee and pay into that.   That plan would have sent annual statements to the policyholder.  A deduction would appear on the payslips.

When auto-enrolment started, the vast majority of individual plans and some group schemes were not auto-enrolment compliant.  So, the employer would have been required to set up a new pension and automatically opt the employee in.   A whole load of paperwork would have been generated to the employee.

I fear, based on the information we have so far, that no pension was set up 22 years ago and no auto-enrolment scheme was set up either.   As the individual was self employed and not a limited company, it may be possible to put a claim into the estate for the money that should have been paid since auto-enrolment.  However, that would need legal advice.   

MX5huggy

I fear, based on the information we have so far, that no pension was set up 22 years ago and no auto-enrolment scheme was set up either.   As the individual was self employed and not a limited company, it may be possible to put a claim into the estate for the money that should have been paid since auto-enrolment.  However, that would need legal advice.   

This is not going to be much money even if you could claim it. Auto enrolment started in April 2017 for small employers at 1% then April 18 2% and finally 3% in April 19. It’s only due on income over £6000 ish per year (pension qualifying earnings level changes each year).