Inlaw claim on inheritance

theoretica

Gers said:

theoretica said:

Scotland complicates things - the 'legal rights' of the children in their father's estate may come into play.  This only affects 1/3 of his 'movable' estate and not the house.

OP says that Grandma now lives in England. 

Yes - but the husband died in Scotland and his death is still relevant - I think his children have 20 years to assert their legal rights.

Also worth noting that an English solicitor grandma consults may not be familiar with Scottish complications and it might be something to enquire about before deciding which solicitor is best to deal with.

TBagpuss

OP, your grandma needs to see a solicitor and this should be one who who is familiar with Scottish, as well as Englsh law. It would be wise for her to take to show them, her late husband's will and any documents relating yto how his estate was disposed of.


As I understand it, under Scottish law he would not have been able to wholly disinherit his children and they would have had rights to a share of his estate (excluding the house) - it sounds as though that was dealt with when he died but she needs to clarify.
 
Assuming that he left the house to her outright, (which t looks as if may have been the case, since she was able to sell and move, although that may depend n the terms of her husband's will) then she can leave that however she wants, and the same with any other assets except if the step-children didn't get their entitlement when her husband died.

Given that there is bad blood and potential for challenges, she should ensure that she lets the solicitor making the will know that, so they can take steps to ensure that her will is less at risk of any challenge (Specifically, they can ensure that they are satisfied, and have recorded their reasons for being satisfied, that she has full capacity and isn't being subjected to any pressure or undue influence, and that they discussed with her and she gave explanations as to why she felt it was appropriate not to leave anything to her step-children or their families.

That said, I think they would find it quite tricky to challenge the will anyway, as they would not benefit under any intestacy so trying to price that the will was invalid (e.g that she lacked capacity) wouldn't help them, unless of course the older will did include gifts to them. Under the Inheritance Act the may or may not be able to claim - this would depend on whether they were ever 'children of the Family' - if your grandma didn't marry their father until they were adult, they won't have been, if they were children then they may have been 'children of the family' - otherwise they would need to show that they were supported by her rior to he death, which sounds unlikely.  

but her solicitor is best placed to advise, and it sounds as though the most important factor will be what her husband's will says and how it was dealt with on his death. 

Malthusian

Dolor said:

After receiving further legal threats, my SiL passed the case on to an established Family Law firm in Manchester who, in a £2000 3 page letter, refuted every legal claim that had been made to contest the Will. The ‘no win:no fee’ lawyers then immediately dropped the case. Will family relations ever recover; sadly, I doubt it.

For a given value of "sadly". To adapt an old saying about lending friends money: if you have to spend £2,000 to defend a legal claim from relatives over a small inheritance, and never hear from them again, it was £2,000 well spent.

getmore4less

Can the in laws make a claim on GM estate almost certainly no.

The issue is what you think is GM estate may contain  could be different to what it actually contains.

That requires the Scottish will of the predeceased husband to determine what happened to his estate.

Spendless

ManicRower said:

I guess I should rephrase slightly given the advice thus far. My Grandma feels they have had 'their share' and is free to write her Will as she pleases. I want to understand if this is accurate. If not accurate, I want to understand if her late husband's children have an entitlement regardless of what is written in my Grandma's Will, and/or if there are any time limitations on it. i.e. If my Grandma lives say 25 years past her husbands death, would they have the same/less/no entitlement compared to if she had passed away 6 months after her husband. 

Hopefully clear, really appreciate the help so far

Can you expand on this? What is 'their share' that they have had? The trinkets and family heirlooms mentioned in your opening post or more than that? I'm just wondering if they've already had what they can inherit under Scottish law when their Dad died?

Username03725

As an observation and nothing more, this is one of those cases that can potentially leave an unsatisfactory outcome.

Whether you agree or not, most of us grow up with a set of parents and have a reasonable expectation that when they're gone their assets will make their way on to the next generation. When one parent remarries and then dies before the new spouse does, the prospect of that parent's residual assets being distributed amongst a secondary set of beneficiaries (the 2nd spouse's family) has a sense of unfairness about it, esp if most of those assets were accumulated during the first marriage

These circumstances give rise to a common question on here and other advice sources, where a relatively short second marriage can be extremely profitable for step-siblings and the reduced benefits to the children of the original marriage are out of proportion to the relative lengths of each marriage and the assets accumulated in the second marriage.

I don't have an answer, but this does highlight how important it can be to make sure that a will should reflect your actual wishes.

All to spouse can leave your own children short later in life. Taking steps to accommodate the possibility of a second marriage and then the surviving spouse predeceasing the new spouse, is probably worth considering.

maman

molerat said:

bouicca21 said:

Getting a copy of the husband’s will is essential.  
https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/order-a-will

Not of any use for a will registered in Scotland.

It's still essential that the grandmother gets a copy though, assuming she doesn't have one already. 

While grandmother has said her husband's children have had their fair share, OP has only mentioned some personal effects and family heirlooms. He's been dismissive of comments about what might constitute a fair share although until the will is looked at it's not possible to know what, if any, provision was made for his children. It would seem that grandmother knew enough about the will to be able to sell the family home which she and deceased husband paid for. 🤔

molerat

maman said:

molerat said:

bouicca21 said:

Getting a copy of the husband’s will is essential.  
https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/order-a-will

It's still essential that the grandmother gets a copy though, assuming she doesn't have one already. 

While grandmother has said her husband's children have had their fair share, OP has only mentioned some personal effects and family heirlooms. He's been dismissive of comments about what might constitute a fair share although until the will is looked at it's not possible to know what, if any, provision was made for his children. It would seem that grandmother knew enough about the will to be able to sell the family home which she and deceased husband paid for. 🤔

Deleted my post as I misread the link.

The Scottish system is a bit of a pain and still in the dark ages as you can pay £25 + VAT to find out a will is not registered !  The £1.50 in England is a steal

buddy9

I think it unfair to say our Scottish system is in the dark ages. The 19th century would be more appropriate.

ManicRower

Thanks again for all comments, really clear. Just in case I hadn't made a few things clear, and answering a couple of points along the way:
- It's my Grandma who initiated wanting to refresh her Will and appoint me as executor. I'm not dragging her into the Solicitors and I've not sat in any meetings with her, nor do I intend to. 
- Where the issue lies (to my mind) is she wants to refresh her Will to reflect what she sees as current circumstances, and has dutifully popped into her local (english) solicitors and wants to amend it as she sees fit.
- I want to understand as the potential executor what I am letting myself in for, i.e. is she going to be able to write what she likes, does she have to make provision for her late husband's children, if she doesn't have to (and doesn't want to) are they likely to have a claim, how does scottish/english law play into this? etc 
- She does have a copy of her late husband's Will. I've not seen it. Debating whether it is appropriate or not for me to see it.

I think my options are:
- Let her write her Will as she sees fit, and if a challenge comes then figure out next steps (Was hoping to avoid kicking can down the road)
- Encourage her to provide the full context/situation with the solicitor, and leave them to it
- Provide the context to the solicitor in a much clearer way than my Grandma, understand the advice he gives her and then leave them to it.