Need advice on Solicitor fees on divorce financial settlement

rajesh22

Hi all,

Happy new year!.

I was referred to a Senior solicitor from a community website, who is working as a partner in a legal firm in London.

She gave me a rate for a "fixed fee" divorce of £950 + vat + court cost £550.

For further "EMAIL ONLY"  financial matters it will be from another junior solicitor with the rate of £200 + vat.

I agreed to this slab in August, and what we did so far is:

1. Applied divorce petition and came until Decree Nisi.

2. Exchanged Form-Es, and still questions and responses are being exchanged.

My solicitor takes at least 2 weeks for each question /response and charged me 3 times with a general description:

"Professional services, advice, financial related matters...mentioning the date period"

Even though the process started before 6 months, the number of emails communications would be around 10 to 15.

There was no telephone or in-person session so far.  I have prepared almost 95% of the Form-E, and my solicitor has re-phrased it.

I paid £4569 so far in 3 instalments, Still, I need to pay the next bill, as my sols answered a couple of questions over email.

Question:  Is this the normal rate or I am being legally cheated? I don't mind the fixed fee, as I agreed to it.

But I could not match the number of tasks vs the price I paid so far. I asked them for the split-up of tasks and hours spent.  Still, they have not replied. 

I cannot change the solicitor now, as the new solicitor will definitely charge me to get all the details up to date.

What are my options here?

Thanks in advance,

Raj

london21

Generally prefer to get a few quotes before deciding who to go with.

You do not have much option than to stay with this solicitor or find another but will still cost you for the work this solicitor has already done.

Are you close to the case ending?

pphillips

I think the red flag here is that the solicitor is reluctant to itemise the work / time spent dealing with your case.

You can make a complaint, solicitors can't charge you to deal with your complaint, and take it to the legal ombudsman if necessary.

rajesh22

@london21
Yes, I am going to wait for a few more weeks to see how it goes and try for another experienced solicitor.   The stage of the case is unknown to me, still, I don't have a clear picture of whether the other side needs out-of-court negotiation or go to court.
Thank you. 

@pphillips
Will consider the ombudsman escalation at the last stage, when my solicitor didn't respond and failed to give the right legal points in the responses, on behalf of me.
Thank you.

T.T.D

The court fee is a one off payment, you would pay that under any circumstances to start the application.

What you do need to clarify however is what In that 950+VAT of the solicitors fixed rate “package deal”included and did not include. 

The average joe in the UK to divorce in a relatively normal divorce scenario will spend £6500-£12000.00 using legal representation, the bulk of the money being legal fee’s. 

Therefore I think you maybe a little misunderstood when she said she could represent you in your divorce for 950+the dreaded fixed rate and court fee, did you mis understand this to be a package deal where it would cost you 1.6k all in? 

Or could it be more realistically that her Daily representation fee at a court hearing was 950 plus the Dreaded was for her to attend court hearings? And that to reduce legal costs would have her junior at 200+ the dreaded deal the case handling with all the emails and communications form processing and applications and advice and come time if needed she would pick up the case and represent you?

There’s no profit in her fixed rate she’s working at a loss as a firm partner and experience as a senior by what you describe as a fixed divorce fee. 

pphillips

T.T.D said:

The average joe in the UK to divorce in a relatively normal divorce scenario will spend £6500-£12000.00 using legal representation, the bulk of the money being legal fee’s. 

That's not correct if it's only for divorce paperwork then the fee are usually a lot less. Some solicitors will offer a fixed fee such as the one mentioned by the OP of £950+VAT+court costs. What would make a divorce more expensive is if there is extra legal work such as a hearing, an ignored petition or a contested divorce. A solicitor would also charge extra for work relating to child arrangements and marital finances. None of these things would be included as fixed fee work.

rajesh22

@T.T.D
The fixed fee is only for the divorce process, which has no list of tasks in their client care letter. 
I asked for the list of items in my latest email to them.

By the way, my case is still not taken to the court, it is just between two solicitors.  They just exchanged Form-E and communicated questions and answers.   


I got another estimate if this case goes to court as:
If the case is done with one hearing: around £6000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc) 
If the case is done with two hearings: around £9000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc)
Still, I cannot estimate the total disbursement as this is on a case basis.

Another question in this context:  Do we opt to select the court, based on the distance of the parties home? or preferable to solicitors?

There’s no profit in her fixed-rate she’s working at a loss as a firm partner and experience as a senior by what you describe as a fixed divorce fee. 

The senior solicitor has not done anything on my case, apart from the initial free 30 min discussion.
My case is being dealt with by the Junior solicitor.

Thanks again.

Thrugelmir

rajesh22 said:

But I could not match the number of tasks vs the price I paid so far. I asked them for the split-up of tasks and hours spent.  Still, they have not replied. 

There'll have a system that logs all time spent. Normally in 5 minute segments. Reading and responding to emails takes time. Soon adds up. My solicitor recommended mediation to reduce the overall cost by them not being involving in every discussion. Still cost me over £3k a decade ago. 

pphillips

rajesh22 said:

@T.T.D
The fixed fee is only for the divorce process, which has no list of tasks in their client care letter. 
I asked for the list of items in my latest email to them.

By the way, my case is still not taken to the court, it is just between two solicitors.  They just exchanged Form-E and communicated questions and answers.   


I got another estimate if this case goes to court as:
If the case is done with one hearing: around £6000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc) 
If the case is done with two hearings: around £9000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc)
Still, I cannot estimate the total disbursement as this is on a case basis.

Another question in this context:  Do we opt to select the court, based on the distance of the parties home? or preferable to solicitors?

There’s no profit in her fixed-rate she’s working at a loss as a firm partner and experience as a senior by what you describe as a fixed divorce fee. 

The senior solicitor has not done anything on my case, apart from the initial free 30 min discussion.
My case is being dealt with by the Junior solicitor.

Thanks again.

The fixed fee divorce process is likely to include the following tasks:

1. Communication with you and the respondent's solicitor regarding the divorce particulars 

2. Drafting and issuing a D8 Divorce Petition Form

3. Receiving the Acknowledgment of Service from the court

4. Drafting and filing the Decree Nisi application 

5. Receiving the Nisi Pronouncement

6. Drafting and filing the Decree Absolute application 

7. Receiving the Decree Absolute 

The hearing venue is likely to be the respondents local court.

T.T.D

pphillips said:

rajesh22 said:

@T.T.D
The fixed fee is only for the divorce process, which has no list of tasks in their client care letter. 
I asked for the list of items in my latest email to them.

By the way, my case is still not taken to the court, it is just between two solicitors.  They just exchanged Form-E and communicated questions and answers.   


I got another estimate if this case goes to court as:
If the case is done with one hearing: around £6000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc) 
If the case is done with two hearings: around £9000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc)
Still, I cannot estimate the total disbursement as this is on a case basis.

Another question in this context:  Do we opt to select the court, based on the distance of the parties home? or preferable to solicitors?

There’s no profit in her fixed-rate she’s working at a loss as a firm partner and experience as a senior by what you describe as a fixed divorce fee. 

The senior solicitor has not done anything on my case, apart from the initial free 30 min discussion.
My case is being dealt with by the Junior solicitor.

Thanks again.

The fixed fee divorce process is likely to include the following tasks:

1. Communication with you and the respondent's solicitor regarding the divorce particulars 

2. Drafting and issuing a D8 Divorce Petition Form

3. Receiving the Acknowledgment of Service from the court

4. Drafting and filing the Decree Nisi application 

5. Receiving the Nisi Pronouncement

6. Drafting and filing the Decree Absolute application 

7. Receiving the Decree Absolute 

The hearing venue is likely to be the respondents local court.

Yes basic process of the divorce application, when BOTH parties want a speedy divorce, and one won’t obstruct the other and both have nothing to split, nothing to share, no family matters to have attend to and issues with details of the application correct and uncontested. Ideal world divorce really for anyone, rarely goes like that though. 

We haven’t got the terms of the contract agreement with the OP and the solicitor to give a break down of services and costs to be expected on this fixed rate contract, we don’t know what is included and what isn’t. 

We don’t know if the OP’s divorce is plain sailing either, by the sounds of it it isn’t, what was the context of his questions to his solicitor so many variables here we don’t know it’s hard to state yes that should have been included in the fixed rate contract, and that wasn’t.

And again, he may not have been on a fixed rate contract at all, and be mistaken, or confused as to what he agreed to. 

Points for clarification OP.

pphillips

T.T.D said:

pphillips said:

rajesh22 said:

@T.T.D
The fixed fee is only for the divorce process, which has no list of tasks in their client care letter. 
I asked for the list of items in my latest email to them.

By the way, my case is still not taken to the court, it is just between two solicitors.  They just exchanged Form-E and communicated questions and answers.   


I got another estimate if this case goes to court as:
If the case is done with one hearing: around £6000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc) 
If the case is done with two hearings: around £9000 + Disbursements(Barrister, Expertfee, Travel etc)
Still, I cannot estimate the total disbursement as this is on a case basis.

Another question in this context:  Do we opt to select the court, based on the distance of the parties home? or preferable to solicitors?

There’s no profit in her fixed-rate she’s working at a loss as a firm partner and experience as a senior by what you describe as a fixed divorce fee. 

The senior solicitor has not done anything on my case, apart from the initial free 30 min discussion.
My case is being dealt with by the Junior solicitor.

Thanks again.

The fixed fee divorce process is likely to include the following tasks:

1. Communication with you and the respondent's solicitor regarding the divorce particulars 

2. Drafting and issuing a D8 Divorce Petition Form

3. Receiving the Acknowledgment of Service from the court

4. Drafting and filing the Decree Nisi application 

5. Receiving the Nisi Pronouncement

6. Drafting and filing the Decree Absolute application 

7. Receiving the Decree Absolute 

The hearing venue is likely to be the respondents local court.

Yes basic process of the divorce application, when BOTH parties want a speedy divorce, and one won’t obstruct the other and both have nothing to split, nothing to share, no family matters to have attend to and issues with details of the application correct and uncontested. Ideal world divorce really for anyone, rarely goes like that though. 

We haven’t got the terms of the contract agreement with the OP and the solicitor to give a break down of services and costs to be expected on this fixed rate contract, we don’t know what is included and what isn’t. 

We don’t know if the OP’s divorce is plain sailing either, by the sounds of it it isn’t, what was the context of his questions to his solicitor so many variables here we don’t know it’s hard to state yes that should have been included in the fixed rate contract, and that wasn’t.

And again, he may not have been on a fixed rate contract at all, and be mistaken, or confused as to what he agreed to. 

Points for clarification OP.

It's pretty clear to me what isn't included in a 'fixed fee' divorce:
1. Any work or costs relating to marital assets and children (these may involve their own proceedings, hearings and court fees). 
2. Any work that is unexpected such as a hearing, the other party not co-operatating or contesting the legal / factual basis of the divorce.

Anyone who agrees to a fixed fee divorce would reasonably expect this to include the basic paperwork essential to obtaining a divorce.