How is the building shortage our fault for a delayed house exchange?

c_ellis92

I have a story I want to share. Something that has been extremely disappointing to hear after an 8-month wait and I was intrigued in hearing if others had experienced similar issues with property developers (particularly Persimmons Homes).

In short, my girlfriend and I have had an offer on a property since June. The vendors of our home-to-be were moving to a new plot with Persimmons Homes. We were originally told that the new build for our vendors would be ready by end of November-early December, and was given a date of 26th November at some point. With the delay of materials we were then informed that the completion date was more likely to be 31st January, 2022. We had all been ready to exchange since October and we were ready to exchange in November but there was never an agreement on exchange or completion date from PH. Hence why exchange was continually being moved/delayed.

On Wednesday, it came to light that the venors plot came back as ‘available’ on the PH website. The vendors were not made aware and I've also been told that PH refunded the vendors money without pre warning and simply returned to their bank account.

It looks as if PH asked for exchange to happen on 22nd December (in the second week of December). We were ready, but the vendors were mid-application for a mortgage extension due to the ongoing supply delays and changes in exchange date. They applied for the extension on 14th December after knowing PH gave the new date of the 22nd Dec - which didn’t leave a lot of time. This was also out of control for our vendors. I’ve also heard that our vendors solicitors even asked PH on 21st Dec if exchange could be extended at least until 4th Jan knowing full well the mortgage offer extension by then would be granted. It looks as if they refused, but all that was needed was proof that the mortgage was extended or in progress. 

It’s also a small world as the plot next to our vendors are friends of ours. They were also given an exchange deadline of 22nd December as they were undergoing similar mortgage extension issues with their buyer. They were granted an extension until next Friday but our vendors weren’t and we were seemingly in a better position than them.

We are, and were, all ready to exchange on 4th January. Between Xmas and New Year our solicitors, estate agents and PH were all closed so no transactions could happen between this time and it was made clear to PH we’d be ready on 4th January. PH have now stated that the plot is now back on the market for an extra £18k and the sale has fallen through.

We are devastated, and so are our vendors. We’ve waited nearly 8 months and kept having to follow up on applications due to the constant change in exchange due to the completion date delays (again out of our control and down to supply/PH progress on the new build).

How is this our fault? This is people's lives.

Can this be allowed to happen? Why was an extension granted to their neigbours-to-be and not them? PH have a lot to answer for.

eddddy

It's not your fault - is anybody suggesting it is?

I guess the only comment to add is that you seem to be relying on a version of events that your seller has told you.

Sometimes sellers tell fibs about what really happened - in order to avoid blame and embarrassment. As you say, why would the developer treat your seller and your friends differently?

 

Slithery

Who said it was your fault?

RogerBareford

c_ellis92 said:

I have a story I want to share. Something that has been extremely disappointing to hear after an 8-month wait and I was intrigued in hearing if others had experienced similar issues with property developers (particularly Persimmons Homes).

In short, my girlfriend and I have had an offer on a property since June. The vendors of our home-to-be were moving to a new plot with Persimmons Homes. We were originally told that the new build for our vendors would be ready by end of November-early December, and was given a date of 26th November at some point. With the delay of materials we were then informed that the completion date was more likely to be 31st January, 2022. We had all been ready to exchange since October and we were ready to exchange in November but there was never an agreement on exchange or completion date from PH. Hence why exchange was continually being moved/delayed.

On Wednesday, it came to light that the venors plot came back as ‘available’ on the PH website. The vendors were not made aware and I've also been told that PH refunded the vendors money without pre warning and simply returned to their bank account.

It looks as if PH asked for exchange to happen on 22nd December (in the second week of December). We were ready, but the vendors were mid-application for a mortgage extension due to the ongoing supply delays and changes in exchange date. They applied for the extension on 14th December after knowing PH gave the new date of the 22nd Dec - which didn’t leave a lot of time. This was also out of control for our vendors. I’ve also heard that our vendors solicitors even asked PH on 21st Dec if exchange could be extended at least until 4th Jan knowing full well the mortgage offer extension by then would be granted. It looks as if they refused, but all that was needed was proof that the mortgage was extended or in progress. 

It’s also a small world as the plot next to our vendors are friends of ours. They were also given an exchange deadline of 22nd December as they were undergoing similar mortgage extension issues with their buyer. They were granted an extension until next Friday but our vendors weren’t and we were seemingly in a better position than them.

We are, and were, all ready to exchange on 4th January. Between Xmas and New Year our solicitors, estate agents and PH were all closed so no transactions could happen between this time and it was made clear to PH we’d be ready on 4th January. PH have now stated that the plot is now back on the market for an extra £18k and the sale has fallen through.

We are devastated, and so are our vendors. We’ve waited nearly 8 months and kept having to follow up on applications due to the constant change in exchange due to the completion date delays (again out of our control and down to supply/PH progress on the new build).

How is this our fault? This is people's lives.

Can this be allowed to happen? Why was an extension granted to their neigbours-to-be and not them? PH have a lot to answer for.

If everyone was ready to exchange in June then I'm not surprised that PH have pulled out consider exchange still hadn't happened by Decemeber. New build companies like exchange to happen right away and there appeared to be no reason for the delay in exchange if there was to be an on notice completion date as there usually is with new builds.

Not exchanging has nothing to do with a delays in the build as you simply exchange with an on notice completion with a long stop date after which everyone can pull out.

I have actually been in this situation not long ago and everyone in the chain (5) agreed to an on notice completion date and exchange happened. If anyone is to blame here it is the vendors for not being ready for exhange. They obviosuly wern't ready since October if in December they had to extend their mortgage offer before they could exchange and they shouldn't have left it so late.

In the chain i was in almost the exact same thing happened with the new build pulling out and saying it was back on the market for a higher price. But several people pushed back at this and said "well we are ready to exchange now and you won't get anyone quicker so let just do it" and they didn't have to pay the higher price.

But again i don't see how all is lost because the plot is still on the market and i'm sure if they offered to buy it at that price they would bite their hand off as they know everyone is ready so it seems your vendors arn't doing everything they can to push this through.

c_ellis92

RogerBareford said:

c_ellis92 said:

I have a story I want to share. Something that has been extremely disappointing to hear after an 8-month wait and I was intrigued in hearing if others had experienced similar issues with property developers (particularly Persimmons Homes).

In short, my girlfriend and I have had an offer on a property since June. The vendors of our home-to-be were moving to a new plot with Persimmons Homes. We were originally told that the new build for our vendors would be ready by end of November-early December, and was given a date of 26th November at some point. With the delay of materials we were then informed that the completion date was more likely to be 31st January, 2022. We had all been ready to exchange since October and we were ready to exchange in November but there was never an agreement on exchange or completion date from PH. Hence why exchange was continually being moved/delayed.

On Wednesday, it came to light that the venors plot came back as ‘available’ on the PH website. The vendors were not made aware and I've also been told that PH refunded the vendors money without pre warning and simply returned to their bank account.

It looks as if PH asked for exchange to happen on 22nd December (in the second week of December). We were ready, but the vendors were mid-application for a mortgage extension due to the ongoing supply delays and changes in exchange date. They applied for the extension on 14th December after knowing PH gave the new date of the 22nd Dec - which didn’t leave a lot of time. This was also out of control for our vendors. I’ve also heard that our vendors solicitors even asked PH on 21st Dec if exchange could be extended at least until 4th Jan knowing full well the mortgage offer extension by then would be granted. It looks as if they refused, but all that was needed was proof that the mortgage was extended or in progress. 

It’s also a small world as the plot next to our vendors are friends of ours. They were also given an exchange deadline of 22nd December as they were undergoing similar mortgage extension issues with their buyer. They were granted an extension until next Friday but our vendors weren’t and we were seemingly in a better position than them.

We are, and were, all ready to exchange on 4th January. Between Xmas and New Year our solicitors, estate agents and PH were all closed so no transactions could happen between this time and it was made clear to PH we’d be ready on 4th January. PH have now stated that the plot is now back on the market for an extra £18k and the sale has fallen through.

We are devastated, and so are our vendors. We’ve waited nearly 8 months and kept having to follow up on applications due to the constant change in exchange due to the completion date delays (again out of our control and down to supply/PH progress on the new build).

How is this our fault? This is people's lives.

Can this be allowed to happen? Why was an extension granted to their neigbours-to-be and not them? PH have a lot to answer for.

If everyone was ready to exchange in June then I'm not surprised that PH have pulled out consider exchange still hadn't happened by Decemeber. New build companies like exchange to happen right away and there appeared to be no reason for the delay in exchange if there was to be an on notice completion date as there usually is with new builds.

Not exchanging has nothing to do with a delays in the build as you simply exchange with an on notice completion with a long stop date after which everyone can pull out.

I have actually been in this situation not long ago and everyone in the chain (5) agreed to an on notice completion date and exchange happened. If anyone is to blame here it is the vendors for not being ready for exhange. They obviosuly wern't ready since October if in December they had to extend their mortgage offer before they could exchange and they shouldn't have left it so late.

In the chain i was in almost the exact same thing happened with the new build pulling out and saying it was back on the market for a higher price. But several people pushed back at this and said "well we are ready to exchange now and you won't get anyone quicker so let just do it" and they didn't have to pay the higher price.

But again i don't see how all is lost because the plot is still on the market and i'm sure if they offered to buy it at that price they would bite their hand off as they know everyone is ready so it seems your vendors arn't doing everything they can to push this through.

That's interesting. Not once since June we were advised that 'on notice completion' was a thing. We were advised that a completion date MUST be agreed in order to exchange. As the completion date kept being moved so did our exchange. I don't know the ins and outs but it's extremely dissappointing. The question I have for PH is why was the extension granted for the plot next door to our vendors and not our vendors, even though the situations were the same.

On reading your penultimate paragpraph I am hoping for some good news but not very hopeful.

loubel

Unfortunately this is the problem with having a new build property in a chain. Normally you wouldn't exchange without a completion date as it puts you at considerable risk. Fair enough for the buyer of the new build but unfair to ask you and anyone else in the chain to accept this.

The seller had a choice to exchange by the deadline but move into rental so that they could complete their sale first or hold off exchange until a date could be set on both. Your seller chose the latter which caused them to miss their exchange deadline and lose the property. That was their risk and you are the unfortunate collateral damage.

RogerBareford

c_ellis92 said:

RogerBareford said:

c_ellis92 said:

I have a story I want to share. Something that has been extremely disappointing to hear after an 8-month wait and I was intrigued in hearing if others had experienced similar issues with property developers (particularly Persimmons Homes).

In short, my girlfriend and I have had an offer on a property since June. The vendors of our home-to-be were moving to a new plot with Persimmons Homes. We were originally told that the new build for our vendors would be ready by end of November-early December, and was given a date of 26th November at some point. With the delay of materials we were then informed that the completion date was more likely to be 31st January, 2022. We had all been ready to exchange since October and we were ready to exchange in November but there was never an agreement on exchange or completion date from PH. Hence why exchange was continually being moved/delayed.

On Wednesday, it came to light that the venors plot came back as ‘available’ on the PH website. The vendors were not made aware and I've also been told that PH refunded the vendors money without pre warning and simply returned to their bank account.

It looks as if PH asked for exchange to happen on 22nd December (in the second week of December). We were ready, but the vendors were mid-application for a mortgage extension due to the ongoing supply delays and changes in exchange date. They applied for the extension on 14th December after knowing PH gave the new date of the 22nd Dec - which didn’t leave a lot of time. This was also out of control for our vendors. I’ve also heard that our vendors solicitors even asked PH on 21st Dec if exchange could be extended at least until 4th Jan knowing full well the mortgage offer extension by then would be granted. It looks as if they refused, but all that was needed was proof that the mortgage was extended or in progress. 

It’s also a small world as the plot next to our vendors are friends of ours. They were also given an exchange deadline of 22nd December as they were undergoing similar mortgage extension issues with their buyer. They were granted an extension until next Friday but our vendors weren’t and we were seemingly in a better position than them.

We are, and were, all ready to exchange on 4th January. Between Xmas and New Year our solicitors, estate agents and PH were all closed so no transactions could happen between this time and it was made clear to PH we’d be ready on 4th January. PH have now stated that the plot is now back on the market for an extra £18k and the sale has fallen through.

We are devastated, and so are our vendors. We’ve waited nearly 8 months and kept having to follow up on applications due to the constant change in exchange due to the completion date delays (again out of our control and down to supply/PH progress on the new build).

How is this our fault? This is people's lives.

Can this be allowed to happen? Why was an extension granted to their neigbours-to-be and not them? PH have a lot to answer for.

If everyone was ready to exchange in June then I'm not surprised that PH have pulled out consider exchange still hadn't happened by Decemeber. New build companies like exchange to happen right away and there appeared to be no reason for the delay in exchange if there was to be an on notice completion date as there usually is with new builds.

Not exchanging has nothing to do with a delays in the build as you simply exchange with an on notice completion with a long stop date after which everyone can pull out.

I have actually been in this situation not long ago and everyone in the chain (5) agreed to an on notice completion date and exchange happened. If anyone is to blame here it is the vendors for not being ready for exhange. They obviosuly wern't ready since October if in December they had to extend their mortgage offer before they could exchange and they shouldn't have left it so late.

In the chain i was in almost the exact same thing happened with the new build pulling out and saying it was back on the market for a higher price. But several people pushed back at this and said "well we are ready to exchange now and you won't get anyone quicker so let just do it" and they didn't have to pay the higher price.

But again i don't see how all is lost because the plot is still on the market and i'm sure if they offered to buy it at that price they would bite their hand off as they know everyone is ready so it seems your vendors arn't doing everything they can to push this through.

That's interesting. Not once since June we were advised that 'on notice completion' was a thing. We were advised that a completion date MUST be agreed in order to exchange. As the completion date kept being moved so did our exchange. I don't know the ins and outs but it's extremely dissappointing. The question I have for PH is why was the extension granted for the plot next door to our vendors and not our vendors, even though the situations were the same.

On reading your penultimate paragpraph I am hoping for some good news but not very hopeful.

I doubt the situations were exactly the same, there will have been differences in the chain and the people that were dealing with it. In my experience giving a set date of exchange was a tactic they used to give everyone a kick up the backside to make things progress and they probably judged that the other plots chain was genuinly ready but were not confident enough to allow that in your chain.

In the week up until exchange happening and when it was announced they were pulling out i was on the phone to my estate agent, my vendors estate agent and my solicitor three or four times a day on some days. Any time i got any information i made sure i passed it on and sometimes my solicitor couldn't get through to someone so i reported that to the relavent agent to make sure everyone i had contact with were on the ball. It then came down to the new build developer at the top of the chain being convinced to allow exchange to happen as everyone was ready. Any increase in price would have needed the buyers to get a new mortgage application so they accepted exchange at the original price with no increase to get things done quickly.

If i was in your position i would be on the phone to my solictors to confirm everyone is still ready for exchange and then ring the estate agent to get them to push the developer to exchange as it can happen right away.

BikingBud

RogerBareford said:

I doubt the situations were exactly the same, there will have been differences in the chain and the people that were dealing with it. In my experience giving a set date of exchange was a tactic they used to give everyone a kick up the backside to make things progress and they probably judged that the other plots chain was genuinly ready but were not confident enough to allow that in your chain.

In the week up until exchange happening and when it was announced they were pulling out i was on the phone to my estate agent, my vendors estate agent and my solicitor three or four times a day on some days. Any time i got any information i made sure i passed it on and sometimes my solicitor couldn't get through to someone so i reported that to the relavent agent to make sure everyone i had contact with were on the ball. It then came down to the new build developer at the top of the chain being convinced to allow exchange to happen as everyone was ready. Any increase in price would have needed the buyers to get a new mortgage application so they accepted exchange at the original price with no increase to get things done quickly.

If i was in your position i would be on the phone to my solictors to confirm everyone is still ready for exchange and then ring the estate agent to get them to push the developer to exchange as it can happen right away.

Interesting approach.

How do you expect them to to get in contact with each other or do anything productive to progress your issue if you're blocking the phone lines and mithering them all, all day?

Do you also count shouting "work harder" as a key motivational technique?

RogerBareford

BikingBud said:

RogerBareford said:

I doubt the situations were exactly the same, there will have been differences in the chain and the people that were dealing with it. In my experience giving a set date of exchange was a tactic they used to give everyone a kick up the backside to make things progress and they probably judged that the other plots chain was genuinly ready but were not confident enough to allow that in your chain.

In the week up until exchange happening and when it was announced they were pulling out i was on the phone to my estate agent, my vendors estate agent and my solicitor three or four times a day on some days. Any time i got any information i made sure i passed it on and sometimes my solicitor couldn't get through to someone so i reported that to the relavent agent to make sure everyone i had contact with were on the ball. It then came down to the new build developer at the top of the chain being convinced to allow exchange to happen as everyone was ready. Any increase in price would have needed the buyers to get a new mortgage application so they accepted exchange at the original price with no increase to get things done quickly.

If i was in your position i would be on the phone to my solictors to confirm everyone is still ready for exchange and then ring the estate agent to get them to push the developer to exchange as it can happen right away.

Interesting approach.

How do you expect them to to get in contact with each other or do anything productive to progress your issue if you're blocking the phone lines and mithering them all, all day?

Do you also count shouting "work harder" as a key motivational technique?

So when they rang me i should have just ignored them should i?

When i got an email from my solictor with information about the chain i should have just not bothered ringing the agent who asked me to call with an update?

Just because people are paid to do a job doesn't mean you shouldn't help them out where they can.

At several points there was poor communication and misinformation which i helped to clear up. For example at one point my agent was told everyone was ready to exchange but then i got an email from my solicitor saying the buyer wasn't ready as they were missing signature so they said exchange wouldn't happen that day. So i rang my agent and told him this and he then got hold of the buyer to go down there and sign it which allowed exchange to happen that afternoon.

So it may seem like i was "mithering" them but when the chain is on the verge of collapse you sometimes have to take an active role to ensure things go smoothly.

penners324

Considering how bad the build quality of Persimmon Homes usually are sounds like your vendors are getting lucky

c_ellis92

penners324 said:

Considering how bad the build quality of Persimmon Homes usually are sounds like your vendors are getting lucky

You’re not the first to mention this. Have you read their reviews online? Sounds as if one person has written all the 5* reviews. I’d never, ever, ever, buy a new build off Persimmons Homes. They are asking for an additional £18k on a house that’s incomplete but are happy to pocket £70m bonuses.