Annual Boiler Service issues and questions

Bendy_House

FreshlyCutFlowers said:

It was a magnetic system filter. (1) He showed me some pictures of what looked like black sludge attached to a brush when it doesnt get cleaned.

Yes, this hole does confuse me a bit- not sure how they bodged it up and cut the hole so big. It's quite drafty under it so I'd love to have it patched up but not sure what can be done about it. (2) Is there some sort of vent that can go around the pipe and cover the hole?

(3) If its a simple job I can give it a go but he recommended I don't as people tended to panic when they opened the lid.

(1) That photo will be of a worst case scenario, but they do happen.

(2) Typically 'register plates' (I think they're called) go over the holes, top and bottom, and the flue passes through them. This seals the hole, and also keeps the flue centralised and away from potentially combustible materials. Retro-fitting might mean a version with a split or two-part so's it can be placed over the pipe. Try a Google?

(3) Yes, it is simple, and once done you'll have no concerns. The lids can be tight, tho', so first time can be scary. The water will be shut off at each end, tho', so no risk of flooding...

Make and model of filter?

john.h

One of these attached to your ceiling 
https://bhl.co.uk/worcester-87180069070-firestop-plate-comes-with-screws-87180069070-w400365.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAieWOBhCYARIsANcOw0w1FUgWt6fPpzooeRMvg7qt1dHYcJQ6tqQ-8K0vPT1xhfZA7g0pIzIaAnTYEALw_wcB

Brewer21

greyteam1959 said:

grumbler said:

FreshlyCutFlowers said:

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like I just have to pay up to get them back in then..  

IMHO, boilers don't need annual servicing. I haven't had my serviced fo 20 years, although admittedly it's a basic one.

It's not a car and there is no anything to 'service' there. Basically, they are getting callout charges and don't do anything real. Cleaning a magnetic filter is a simple DIY job.

Same here.
I have a condensing gas boiler & not had it serviced in 15 years.
And don't intend to either 

Just an addition, talking Worcester Bosch condensing boilers here, about 6 years old.
I had a filter fitted as an extra, it fits on the flow or return (can't remember) it gets cleaned every service, and yes it has its own spanner. There is also a condensate trap to clean at each service. It traps any sediment which could settle in any condensate pipe, and yes it does catch it. Easy to clean, just remove a clip on cover and catch any water in a container, flush out the trap/cover and replace, it's simple.
Word of warning, my son had an identical boiler fitted a year later than me, so his is around 5 years old. He's never had it serviced although I keep telling him to get it done. Anyways he had a problem, the boiler started to not shutting down properly when programmed to, strange. I asked our boiler man what he thought about my son's none serviced boiler, he just told me to tell him to make sure the condensate trap is clean and doesn't get blocked so much as the boiler will stop which in turn could cause other problems.
A few days later I called round at my son's house to show him how to remove and clean the said filter above. It was almost blocked but letting a trickle of condensate water through. All cleaned and I left. Next day my son rang and said it's a miracle, the boiler now starts up and shuts down as normal, no more prolonged shut down problems.
He's never had any other problems with his boiler in 5 years, neither have I, only difference is mine is serviced every year so still carries the warranty. His is still in warranty just, I doubt he'd get to claim anything though if it went pop as it's not been  serviced.

FreshlyCutFlowers

Alanp said:

There used to be three categories 
not to current standards
at risk
immediately dangerous
the not to current standards was dropped, and, unless it’s altered again there’s only two
your boiler guy probably issued an at risk notice, mainly to cover himself over the flue fixing, if it was ID, he would HAVE to fix it ( with your permission) , or cap off the gas, 
It would be prudent to get the flue correctly secured just to be sure…
if the , not to current standards was still in use, he would have noted the flue under this

This may explain why and also is great to know, thanks. I will get it secured.

john.h said:

One of these attached to your ceiling 
https://bhl.co.uk/worcester-87180069070-firestop-plate-comes-with-screws-87180069070-w400365.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAieWOBhCYARIsANcOw0w1FUgWt6fPpzooeRMvg7qt1dHYcJQ6tqQ-8K0vPT1xhfZA7g0pIzIaAnTYEALw_wcB

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't know how well this would work- it's not immediately obvious in the picture but the ceiling is at an angle.

Bendy_House said:

FreshlyCutFlowers said:

It was a magnetic system filter. (1) He showed me some pictures of what looked like black sludge attached to a brush when it doesnt get cleaned.

Yes, this hole does confuse me a bit- not sure how they bodged it up and cut the hole so big. It's quite drafty under it so I'd love to have it patched up but not sure what can be done about it. (2) Is there some sort of vent that can go around the pipe and cover the hole?

(3) If its a simple job I can give it a go but he recommended I don't as people tended to panic when they opened the lid.

(2) Typically 'register plates' (I think they're called) go over the holes, top and bottom, and the flue passes through them. This seals the hole, and also keeps the flue centralised and away from potentially combustible materials. Retro-fitting might mean a version with a split or two-part so's it can be placed over the pipe. Try a Google?

(3) Yes, it is simple, and once done you'll have no concerns. The lids can be tight, tho', so first time can be scary. The water will be shut off at each end, tho', so no risk of flooding...

Make and model of filter?

If I fitted one of these register plates, would I still also need a separate flue bracket on top of that? He told me to install 'ideal heating flue bracket' so it is secured to the wall. Because the ceiling is plasterboard he told me it won't be holding the flue if I attach it to that.

I think this is the filter https://www.mrcentralheating.co.uk/worcester-greenstar-22mm-system-filter
Same name on a little note on my filter but having googled they all look identical so hard to say.

FreshlyCutFlowers

I called around and found that this is the tool I need Worcester Tool for Lid 8716117923.
I find it costs me £17.5 to get it delivered via theheatexchange. Do they sell these tools elsewhere or are these third party sites the only place I can get them? Seemed a tad much I thought.

bris

grumbler said:

FreshlyCutFlowers said:

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like I just have to pay up to get them back in then..  

IMHO, boilers don't need annual servicing. I haven't had my serviced for 20 years, 

Good for you but the combustion chamber will be a mess and your anylser readings will be through the roof. 

It's a sealed system so right now it's only the air that getrs poisoned but if a seal goes just make sure you at least have a working carbon monoxide detector.

As for the OP the flue shoud be supported every meter, not only that the hole it goes through should be sealed as well as an inspection hatch of at least 300mm x 300mm fitted into the ceiling so any connections can be inspected.  You need inspection hatches avery 1.5 meters along it's lenth.

If it was "at risk" he would have turned it off so I will assume he has just noted it as required work. In the old days it's a "not to current standards" so was just noted as such and left to the responsible person to fix.

Is it an at risk? Thats up for debate but at the end of the day the engineer will or should have checked it pretty well and decided it was safe, don't forget there are millions of boilers still like this before the new rules so we can't just condemn them because a bracket that would probaly make no difference isn't fitted. 

The spanner thing for the filter comes with every brand I have ever fitted so there are too many to carry them all and it's not really our job to keep them anyway.

grumbler

FreshlyCutFlowers said:

I think this is the filter https://www.mrcentralheating.co.uk/worcester-greenstar-22mm-system-filter
Same name on a little note on my filter but having googled they all look identical so hard to say.

Or just buy a belt spanner like I said above.

FreeBear

A quick look round, even on ebay, you'd be looking at around £17.50 for a new one. Plenty of other places selling the same part, some for as much as £30+VAT+P&P... A strap wrench as used for removing oil filters would probably do the same job for a few pounds less.

Bendy_House

FreshlyCutFlowers said:

I called around and found that this is the tool I need Worcester Tool for Lid 8716117923.
I find it costs me £17.5 to get it delivered via theheatexchange. Do they sell these tools elsewhere or are these third party sites the only place I can get them? Seemed a tad much I thought.

Try emailing W-B and tell them you had a filter fitted but only just realised the installer didn't leave the tool. "Help, please".

Bendy_House

Servicing...

Does a boiler need servicing every year? Almost certainly 'no', at least not after the warranty has expired (until then, it'll likely be a 'condition').

Pros of having your boiler serviced every year? (a) Even after the warranty has expired, it should help you if you need to make a claim under the CRA or similar. Ie, you can show that you've done everything you can - at some expense - in order to keep your boiler spot-on, but the boiler has still gorn faulty before it should - so it must have been an inherent issue. (b) Some problems will be picked up/anticipated before they become serious. (c) Peace of mind (not to be underestimated) (d) Can't think of anything else.

Cons of having your boiler serviced every year? (a) Cost. (b) Hassle of appointments? (c) Can't think of anything else.

My personal recommendation, based on experience? After any warranty period (your call whether to be influenced by this), I'd pencil in a service for every, ooh, 3 or 4 years. AND, this would almost certainly need to be with a trusted, recommended, and thorough local GasSafe.

Yes, condensate traps do fill up over time, so this should be part of a proper service. (Mine wasn't - I only found out when it overflowed and I cleaned it out myself). Combustion chambers should, I believe, be part of a thorough service (this is where the carp that blocks your cond trap comes from), but usually isn't. Again, mine wasn't - until I asked - and then he did it, hoovering out all the debris. Other issues should also come to light in good time, provided they are reasonably obvious. For me that was (1) the flue test cap had perished and fallen off, and was sitting in my cupboard for at least 2 years before I worked out what it was... Interestingly, it did not release any flue gases, as the CO alarm in that cupboard showed zero CO. (2) A 'Hydroblock' cracked and started leaking, but this was noticed when I next opened my cupboard. And, had it not been leaking when the boiler was serviced, then it wouldn't have been anticipated.

Sooooo, have your boiler serviced annually if (a) your warranty requires it, (b) it gives you peace of mind, (c) for the remote chance that they'll pick up on an untoward noise or damp patch, or (d) if, um, er, no other reason I can think of.

Instead, have it service every, ooh, 3-odd years, by a good service fellow who will check the cond trap, and who will clean out your 'engine', and will clean yer filter, and slip them an extra £core as such folk are t'salt of t'earth.