Can I apply for a job and attend interview whilst in the sick?

1616french1964

arctic_ghost said:

1616french1964 said:

Are companies obliged to offer this Duty of care?
Especially when there are other options like a shift transfer which would 100% solve my issue?

HASWA Sec 2(1) Employer must protect the HS&W at work of all their employees
2(2) Provide & maintain plant & systems of work that are safe & without risk to health
2(2)c Provide safe place of work, safe access/egress, safe working environment

Risks to health includes mental health.

MANAGEMENT OF HEALTH AND SAFETY AT WORK REGS 1999
Reg 3 Risk assessment (significant risks to be recorded), HSE are known to issue improvement notices for lack of or inadequate stress risk assessments.
Reg 5 Health surveillance

Is there a union on-site? If so involve H&S rep.  Two other points, I'd reconsider the invite to mediation, I rarely agree with it but in this case there may be merits.
2nd, give consideration to persecuting a grievance, again obtain assistance from trade union.

No union I'm afraid.

theoretica

Thinking more about this, I would want mediation with the manager(s) and not with the other worker.  You are employed to do a job, the managers are not taking steps to give you a reasonable workspace and resources to do this in.  It shouldn't be your job to manage the person who has the shift before and by pushing mediation and making out that your problem is with the other worker that is what the company is doing - and that isn't where the true issue lies. The problem is that he isn't being managed.

1616french1964

theoretica said:

Thinking more about this, I would want mediation with the manager(s) and not with the other worker.  You are employed to do a job, the managers are not taking steps to give you a reasonable workspace and resources to do this in.  It shouldn't be your job to manage the person who has the shift before and by pushing mediation and making out that your problem is with the other worker that is what the company is doing - and that isn't where the true issue lies. The problem is that he isn't being managed.

That's exactly the problem here.
He has a history of conflict with other employees and as well as receiving numerous warnings he was also suspended from work for 4 weeks after being accused of damaging a co workers car.
The security cameras didn't catch him doing it so he got away with it.
After the threatening phone call incident a guy who worked alongside this individual applied for another job within our plant just to get away from this individual as he was finding himself arguing constantly with this guy over his lack of interest in doing his job.
My team leader knows exactly what is going on as quite a few have complained about this guy but they just don't seem to care.
It's truly unbelievable 😁

breaking_free

1616french1964 said:

My team leader knows exactly what is going on as quite a few have complained about this guy but they just don't seem to care.
It's truly unbelievable 😁

This used to baffle me too, but I think I know the answer.

I've worked with some difficult people in my time including a bloke who raised the ire of every person he directly worked with; no amount of complaints to the boss resulted in so much as this guy even getting a stern talking to. A better example is one I heard second hand: all the wait staff on a cruise ship refused to continue working under some a-hole of a maître d'. When the ship docked at the end of the week-long cruise there were several dozen new waiters ready to come on board and the existing staff were all sacked (wow!). 

My thinking is this: certain managers or bosses take criticism of their hiring choices personally. By saying you have a problem with a staff member you're implying that the hirer made a bad decision. In the example of the cruise staff, I reckon the company thought, "So the staff they think they can tell US what to do eh? We'll show them".

If there is a more rational explanation than this I'd love to hear it.

1616french1964

breaking_free said:

1616french1964 said:

My team leader knows exactly what is going on as quite a few have complained about this guy but they just don't seem to care.
It's truly unbelievable 😁

This used to baffle me too, but I think I know the answer.

I've worked with some difficult people in my time including a bloke who raised the ire of every person he directly worked with; no amount of complaints to the boss resulted in so much as this guy even getting a stern talking to. A better example is one I heard second hand: all the wait staff on a cruise ship refused to continue working under some a-hole of a maître d'. When the ship docked at the end of the week-long cruise there were several dozen new waiters ready to come on board and the existing staff were all sacked (wow!). 

My thinking is this: certain managers or bosses take criticism of their hiring choices personally. By saying you have a problem with a staff member you're implying that the hirer made a bad decision. In the example of the cruise staff, I reckon the company thought, "So the staff they think they can tell US what to do eh? We'll show them".

If there is a more rational explanation than this I'd love to hear it.

Yes, that's the impression I get too.
Because I've suggested the only alternative is for him or myself to be moved where we'd never have any contact my direct manager has constantly refused my request.
It's as if because I've come up with a solution he doesn't like it.

Savvy_Sue

Just wondering: if the move you'd like to make would mean you've have a different manager, is there any mileage in you approaching the potential manager and seeing if they'd like to 'headhunt' you? No idea if that would work, but perhaps worth considering. 

1616french1964

Savvy_Sue said:

Just wondering: if the move you'd like to make would mean you've have a different manager, is there any mileage in you approaching the potential manager and seeing if they'd like to 'headhunt' you? No idea if that would work, but perhaps worth considering. 

No, it's the same team manager and same dept manager.
It's also exactly the same job, only on a different shift.

JustAnotherSaver

Reading through your post & feel for your position. Just makes me think - how hard headed or just thick can your/an employer be?

My only thought is that they must surely want you gone for whatever reason that may be.

Anyone with half an ounce can tell it's got to the point where mediation is simply not going to work (obviously i'm assuming you're giving a 100% accurate version of events but since yours is the only side we have, that's what we have to assume). It has clearly gone beyond kiss and make up, banging heads together, finger wagging and saying knock it off guys.

Have you asked why they keep rejecting your requests? If you've answered that later in the thread then i missed it.

Good luck & hope you can escape this situation soon. I've been in something similar. Not pleasant.

JustAnotherSaver

Sandtree said:

Bungle5393 said:

Sandtree said:

Admit to not reading the drivers but...

There is nothing to stop you applying for jobs whilst off sick. In theory there is nothing to stop you attending interviews as you are not an employee and so the duty of care, insurance issues etc are all much less 

The challenge would be starting the new job, or agreeing a start date, whilst you are still off sick unless your doctor gave you a partial fit note and then that depends on exactly what that said. It could be complex saying you cannot start on the date they want because you are signed off sick with mental health issues... though most would blame a notice period or pre-booked holiday or such.

A fit note is not set in stone, if an individual chooses to disregard it and commence/continue employment then that's up to them. eg someone can be signed off for 14 days but decide to return to work after 7 days. As a minimum, the business should do some kind of return to work interview whereby they check in with the employee, agree duties etc and make sure they appear ok to return to work. They may insist the employee gets another fit note from their GP insisting they are ok to return to work, but that's just an admin thing really.

Most employers, from my experience, will be very warry of taking staff back when their doctor is still saying they arent fit to be working even if the employee say they now feel fine. Historically employers have always blamed Employers Liability insurance not providing cover in those events but never read an EL policy in enough detail to know if this is true or just urban myth (like the whole you cant give a bad reference).

Obv if the doc is happy to change their opinion then employers will follow the "expert"

Just this post here. I know you said most and you didn't say all, so obviously with what i'm about to say you can easily repeat that.

I've been on the sick before and returned before time. They didn't even want me to go to the doctor to get signed back. They don't actually care. You could have your arm falling off & they'd think you should carry on working because you have another one kind of thing so when you say you want to go back before the note expires they certainly have no issue with that where i work. I could tell you many a story that would have you disbelieving saying "they can't do that" or "but that's not right/legal" or "an employer wouldn't do that".

1616french1964

JustAnotherSaver said:

Reading through your post & feel for your position. Just makes me think - how hard headed or just thick can your/an employer be?

My only thought is that they must surely want you gone for whatever reason that may be.

Anyone with half an ounce can tell it's got to the point where mediation is simply not going to work (obviously i'm assuming you're giving a 100% accurate version of events but since yours is the only side we have, that's what we have to assume). It has clearly gone beyond kiss and make up, banging heads together, finger wagging and saying knock it off guys.

Have you asked why they keep rejecting your requests? If you've answered that later in the thread then i missed it.

Good luck & hope you can escape this situation soon. I've been in something similar. Not pleasant.

I was moved from a machine operators position over 3 years ago due to osteoarthritis in both knees, I couldn't stand for long periods and at the time I was operating 2 machines simultaneously which required a lot of walking.
It got so painful I literally begged to be moved.
That time they agreed, 3 months later I was still waiting.
It got to the point where 2 hours into my shift I could barely walk or stand so the occupational nurse at the time advised me to go on the sick.
One week into my time off they rang me at home to tell me they would now move me but by that time I'd organised an x-ray, MRI scan and physiotherapy sessions, so I politely refused.
After a few weeks off to have the tests and physiotherapy sessions I returned to work to do the job I've been on for the last 3 years.
It hasn't been an issue until this phone call incident.
Everytime I've asked I keep being told I can't be moved again because I've already been moved.
It was also questioned why I did a shift swap last year with another guy who does the exact same job as me on a different shift and I explained I accepted a shift swap from the guy because he wanted to be on the same shift as his brother so they could travel to work together which was like a 25 mile road trip every shift....I actually gained an extra 4 x 12 hour shifts off as the guy who benefitted from the shift swap had to work an extra 4 shifts... nothing suspicious about it but they were trying to make out it was suspicious.
I definitely think they're trying to sicken me even more and get rid of me.
I honestly don't know where I stand here.
Just wish I'd been in a union.