DCBLegal Letter of Claim - delayed replying

madeamistake789

Hi there,

don't roll your eyes at yet another noob, but I've just seen a thread from last year where someone ignored the LoC in a similar fashion and lost in court, so thought it would be better to ask for help than end up like that.

I received an LoC from DCBLegal for a charge from December 2017. The LoC letter is dated 4th November. No appeals, I followed the (now wrong) advice of ignoring everything.

I've read the Newbies post, and sent a SAR to UKPC and a note to DCBLegal asking for 30 days. Those 30 days ended on 16th December, and I've not done anything since.

The bit that I am not sure about is whether AoS needs to be completed for LoC or if/when actual court claim letter arrives? Basically, is LoC the same as the claim or is it still essentially LBC?

A few weeks ago I was reading through a post here which also talked about replying to DCBLegal and asking them to resend the LoC with correct information, but I can't find it anymore. Does it apply? It talked about writing in your own words and pointing out why the letter of claim contains wrong information, such as not specifying that they added in £60 of admin costs, or not including all the details. The post mentioned that this is all important as part of the court proceedings.

The same thread also talked about an alternative of sending an offer without prejudice. I was certain that was linked in the newbies thread, but I can't see it now. The search function on MSE really needs a way of searching only within the category. (the small search button inside the category does not achieve that, and e.g. the forum search link in the FAQs does not work).

Thanks in advance for any help!

Coupon-mad

You could respond now and ask DCBLegal for a close up of the sign and state that they must supply this under the PAP.

No making an offer.  It's UKPC!  Look at the other UKPC court claim cases from this past week; their signs are unreadable.

madeamistake789

Thank you. They have supplied the close-up of the sign when replying to SAR (as it was taken on the night of the charge being issued).

From the picture, it's pretty clear it was too dark to see the sign anyway as they had to use flash to photograph it. One of the pictures is also of the car in the dark, with just a tiny bit of it visible, and everything around it being pitch black. Not sure if it's useful, but I can attach those pictures here.

More importantly, the sign closest to the car was obstructed and therefore not reasonably visible either. I lived in the area at the time and used the parking space many times (approximately once a week for several years), and from looking at Google maps, the restrictions were put into place at some point between July and December 2017.

I think there are multiple options for defence (using the Newbies help), but I wasn't sure if AoS applies now, or not yet? Unfortunately, the restaurant that I visited that day has left the area and they've said they are unable to help now.

Fruitcake

LoC is the same as a LBC, Letter Before Claim.

AoS is done once the claim form itself has arrived. It cannot be done before. To give you the maximum time to create a defence, do not do the AoS until after day 5 from the issue date on the claim form, but do not miss the submission deadline.

You will need to set up a government gateway, and you will be given a password when the claim arrives. Do not under any circumstances reveal that password to anyone. We have seen several horrific cases recently where someone posted their claim number and password, and somebody else submitted a defence that assisted the parking company.

madeamistake789

Thank you, Fruitcake (love the name), much appreciated! I think it was the formatting that made me think I need to jump on the AoS asap (but was also missing the claim number, should have been a clue!), coupled with a few other threads which say new thread if you have LoC.

Okay, I will stay put until the actual claim arrives in that case (if it arrives, but it likely will), as I've completed the other steps.

madeamistake789

Hi there,

I have now received the claim form, and I have completed the acknowledgment steps from the newbies thread.

As per the defence draft thread, I am now posting for advice before I send it off. My idea here is to show that the parking restriction was only put in place at some point not long before the ticket was issued. That it has been a free parking area for years, and that the entry sign was obstructed.

The next closest sign does sit under a street lamp, but I believe that the person issuing the ticket had to use flash to get a picture of it. As I don't know this for a fact, I don't know if I should add it or not.

My main defence is still the false admin costs, though.
-------

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question.

3. The location has been used by local residents as a parking spot for a number of years in order to access the facilities of the retail park. The Defendant has used the location at least once a month between YEAR and YEAR, and would normally access the location from XXX. Using Google Maps Street View, it can be confirmed that between YEAR and YEAR, there was no parking restriction in place on XXX.

On the day of the alleged contravention, in DATE/TIME, the Defendant arrived at XXX as normal from the direction of XXX. As can be seen in the pictures from that day provided by COMPANY, the sign at the entrance to the parking enforcement area was obstructed by a large lorry, thus making it impossible to notice.

The Defendant then proceeded to park at the first available spot, which was a few spots away from the next sign about the parking restriction. At TIME it was really dark outside, as can be seen in the pictures taken by COMPANY. From the spot where the Defendant left his car, it is difficult to see the sign in daylight, and even more difficult to see in the dark. Given the history of visiting this location and the inability to see the entry sign, the Defendant did not expect to look for another sign or a machine to pay for the parking. 

----
Thanks

KeithP

madeamistake789 said:

I have now received the claim form, and I have completed the acknowledgment steps from the newbies thread.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

You have two unnumbered paragraphs in your proposed Defence.
Every paragraph needs a number and subsequent paragraphs renumbered accordingly.

patient_dream

madeamistake789 said:

Hi there,

I have now received the claim form, and I have completed the acknowledgment steps from the newbies thread.

As per the defence draft thread, I am now posting for advice before I send it off. My idea here is to show that the parking restriction was only put in place at some point not long before the ticket was issued. That it has been a free parking area for years, and that the entry sign was obstructed.

The next closest sign does sit under a street lamp, but I believe that the person issuing the ticket had to use flash to get a picture of it. As I don't know this for a fact, I don't know if I should add it or not.

My main defence is still the false admin costs, though.

Could you please upload to here the CLOSE UP picture they sent you.
All UKPC signs are unreadable if you don't have a zoom lens or binoculars

And, the area they cover, is there a front facing sign to warn people ?

The fake admin fee that DCBL apply is a scam which must be pointed out to the court ... it's not an actual defence

DCBL will claim they are allowed to add this because the BPA code of practice says they can.   In reality this is total rubbish as the code of practice is not regulated and the fake add-on is nothing more than cloud dreaming by the BPA and invented by a a BPA board member TO ENABLE MEMBERS TO MAKE MORE MONEY

Coupon-mad

My main defence is still the false admin costs, though.

No if really isn't and please don't say that as your opening gambit if this makes it as far as a hearing.

All paragraphs need a number.

madeamistake789

KeithP said:

madeamistake789 said:

I have now received the claim form, and I have completed the acknowledgment steps from the newbies thread.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

You have two unnumbered paragraphs in your proposed Defence.
Every paragraph needs a number and subsequent paragraphs renumbered accordingly.

The issue date is 31st October, and I filed AoS 8 days after the issue date. 

As I made those paragraphs more for readability than anything else, is it better to connect them into one big paragraph, or still add numbers (and renumber the rest)?

KeithP

madeamistake789 said:

KeithP said:

madeamistake789 said:

I have now received the claim form, and I have completed the acknowledgment steps from the newbies thread.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

You have two unnumbered paragraphs in your proposed Defence.
Every paragraph needs a number and subsequent paragraphs renumbered accordingly.

The issue date is 31st October, and I files AoS 8 days after the issue date. 

With a Claim Issue Date of 31st October, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 5th December 2022 to file your Defence.

That's two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see you are not leaving it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.