Avro closure

enaid

 was transferred to Octopus after Avro went bust. I followed the info from Octopus to open account etc. I went in to view my bill and was shocked to see I owed well over £800. Of course I queried this and was told they had taken the last gas reading from Avro and the initial reading I gave them and that was the reason. After investigation turns out Avro ignored my gas meter readings that were sent along with my electric readings every month. They estimated and kept my gas bills down to the bare minimum, can only think as I was on a fixed tariff and they couldn.t up it it would somehow benefit them.
I wondered if it they were in the wrong to ignore my readings and if so what can I do about that now. Also if indeed I do owe for the missing gas then I do not agree to be charged by Octopus for them as they are over double the rate I was paying at Avro and that to me is unfair I don't owe Octopus but I may owe Avro.
Any ideas anyone on what I can do not having much luck with Octopus on this as I told them I wouldn'r pay that amount so the figure has gone off my account along with any gas info

[Deleted User]

This problem isn’t going to go away. The SoLR has to agree a transfer reading with the failed supplier’s administrator. Both Octopus and the failed supplier have to use the same reading. How different is the opening reading that you gave Octopus to the one that it has used to open your Octopus account?

It would not have been in Avro’s interests to underestimate your usage as it would been providing you with energy that you were not paying for. Most people complain when over estimates are used. You also appear to be a bit confused as to the meaning of a fixed contract: the only things that are fixed are the contract duration; daily standing charge and unit price. The more energy that you use, the more you will end up paying.

If you have under paid Avro then this will show in the debit balance passed on to Octopus. Yes, you will have to pay Octopus but the debit balance will be based on your old Avro tariff rates. Octopus will not charge you for energy that it has not supplied.

There is an important lesson here: one which sadly catches a lot of people out. This situation could have been avoided if you had checked your Avro bills. All estimated readings used for billing are usually annotated with the letter E.

brewerdave

[Deleted User] said:

This problem isn’t going to go away. The SoLR has to agree a transfer reading with the failed supplier’s administrator. Both Octopus and the failed supplier have to use the same reading. 

But HOW is this enforced ?
For example, Neon Reef have already issued "final" statements based on estimated readings in November ,which some customers have already settled.
 I haven't because the reading shown on this final statement has never appeared anywhere on the SOLR's website (BG).

As I understand it ,the administrators are not obliged to take any notice of OFGEM/Ombudsman rulings.

[Deleted User]

brewerdave said:

[Deleted User] said:

This problem isn’t going to go away. The SoLR has to agree a transfer reading with the failed supplier’s administrator. Both Octopus and the failed supplier have to use the same reading. 

But HOW is this enforced ?
For example, Neon Reef have already issued "final" statements based on estimated readings in November ,which some customers have already settled.
 I haven't because the reading shown on this final statement has never appeared anywhere on the SOLR's website (BG).

As I understand it ,the administrators are not obliged to take any notice of OFGEM/Ombudsman rulings.

Anybody that owes a failed company money is a debtor. Administrators have the legal right to use debt collectors and the Courts. Final statements using estimated readings may be the result of the industry-validation process. Estimates are the norm when consumers fail to provide frequent meter readings or the supplier chooses to ignore them. As posted above, the important thing here is that the SoLR and the failed supplier use the same readings to open and close accounts. If the opening reading differs markedly from that provided by the consumer to the SoLR then an agreed Readings Dispute can be initiated with the SoLR.

I would just gently point out that an estimated opening reading which is higher than the meter index reading works in the consumer’s favour. The energy will have been purchased at the failed supplier’s rates and the SoLR will only charge the daily standing charge until the meter index passes the opening reading.

brewerdave

[Deleted User] said:

brewerdave said:

[Deleted User] said:

This problem isn’t going to go away. The SoLR has to agree a transfer reading with the failed supplier’s administrator. Both Octopus and the failed supplier have to use the same reading. 

But HOW is this enforced ?
For example, Neon Reef have already issued "final" statements based on estimated readings in November ,which some customers have already settled.
 I haven't because the reading shown on this final statement has never appeared anywhere on the SOLR's website (BG).

As I understand it ,the administrators are not obliged to take any notice of OFGEM/Ombudsman rulings.

Anybody that owes a failed company money is a debtor. Administrators have the legal right to use debt collectors and the Courts. Final statements using estimated readings may be the result of the industry-validation process. Estimates are the norm when consumers fail to provide frequent meter readings or the supplier chooses to ignore them. As posted above, the important thing here is that the SoLR and the failed supplier use the same readings to open and close accounts. If the opening reading differs markedly from that provided by the consumer to the SoLR then an agreed Readings Dispute can be initiated with the SoLR.

I would just gently point out that an estimated opening reading which is higher than the meter index reading works in the consumer’s favour. The energy will have been purchased at the failed supplier’s rates and the SoLR will only charge the daily standing charge until the meter index passes the opening reading.

Firstly, I supplied very regular readings to NR and ,to be fair, their estimate is a very accurate one but appeared too quickly after the failure date  to be an industry verified reading. Quite clearly estimated by the administrators from my own readings..
Secondly, as I understand it ,the SOLR can't raise an ARD with the administrators - so ,presumably they would just have to accept the estimated changeover read?.
Thirdly, your point about high estimated readings is true in the sense that it is in the customer's financial favour but if it is too much in the customer's favour it can lead to the "computer says no" scenarios when actual readings are substituted with ever higher estimates !! 

[Deleted User]

brewerdave said:

[Deleted User] said:

brewerdave said:

[Deleted User] said:

This problem isn’t going to go away. The SoLR has to agree a transfer reading with the failed supplier’s administrator. Both Octopus and the failed supplier have to use the same reading. 

But HOW is this enforced ?
For example, Neon Reef have already issued "final" statements based on estimated readings in November ,which some customers have already settled.
 I haven't because the reading shown on this final statement has never appeared anywhere on the SOLR's website (BG).

As I understand it ,the administrators are not obliged to take any notice of OFGEM/Ombudsman rulings.

Anybody that owes a failed company money is a debtor. Administrators have the legal right to use debt collectors and the Courts. Final statements using estimated readings may be the result of the industry-validation process. Estimates are the norm when consumers fail to provide frequent meter readings or the supplier chooses to ignore them. As posted above, the important thing here is that the SoLR and the failed supplier use the same readings to open and close accounts. If the opening reading differs markedly from that provided by the consumer to the SoLR then an agreed Readings Dispute can be initiated with the SoLR.

I would just gently point out that an estimated opening reading which is higher than the meter index reading works in the consumer’s favour. The energy will have been purchased at the failed supplier’s rates and the SoLR will only charge the daily standing charge until the meter index passes the opening reading.

Firstly, I supplied very regular readings to NR and ,to be fair, their estimate is a very accurate one but appeared too quickly after the failure date  to be an industry verified reading. Quite clearly estimated by the administrators from my own readings..
Secondly, as I understand it ,the SOLR can't raise an ARD with the administrators - so ,presumably they would just have to accept the estimated changeover read?.
Thirdly, your point about high estimated readings is true in the sense that it is in the customer's financial favour but if it is too much in the customer's favour it can lead to the "computer says no" scenarios when actual readings are substituted with ever higher estimates !! 

The SoLR's data collector will validate the opening reading which would be passed back to the failed supplier. I would have thought that it was very much in an administrator's interest to work with the SoLR to agree Final Bills even though one entity is not party to SLCs. I was with Zog before it failed. In the unlikely event that the Final Bill came up with an estimated opening reading many 00s of units out, I would just accept it with the proviso that the opening and closing reading must be the same.

In these situations, we all tend to forget that failed suppliers may have failed partly because of their poor billing systems. Even with Zog which had only 11.5k customers, and an excellent billing system, Final Bills have stalled. 

enaid

I also supplied accurate readings monthly that they ignored. I did check my bills monthly and everything looked fine with my balance I did not check the workings out sadly. I also have proof on my phone of the last readings that I passed to Octopus. I am not refusing to pay what I owe here just refusing to pay Octopus the £800 odd pounds they say I owe. If the administrators send a fair bill then I will pay up. There has to be a reason that Avro ignored my gas readings but not my electric ones but I can't figure out why. As an after I have yet to move house or change providers without loads of trouble

MWT

enaid said:

I am not refusing to pay what I owe here just refusing to pay Octopus the £800 odd pounds they say I owe. If the administrators send a fair bill then I will pay up.

Your best hope is to write to the administrators and complain that they have under-charged you.

They are obliged to recover as much as they can for the creditors of the failed business so there is a chance they will consider that it is worth spending the time to reissue their final invoice.

... but if they refuse then you are stuck with the Octopus bill.

It is a tough lesson to learn, but the time to be checking what Avro were billing you for was while they were still your supplier, not after they have failed and are in administration...

Limara

I'm have the same problem two accounts trying to contact octopus about it is worse than bashing your head against a brick wall funny on both accounts they are similar amount under estimated on the electric and on both accounts there has been nothing but waffle from octopus by saying they have refunded now I have no idea what they have done on one account they have refunded what they took then ignored November reading issued December reading which is still less than it should have shown at switch over so sick and fed up with it its making me ill now  one has a debt passed over of 75 pounds which would have been 30 if correct readings were used. Plus the extra cost of the electric from octopus is another 80 quid I'm on very low income it will be bad enough paying the extra charge without having to pay it for power they didn't supply. 

QrizB

Limara said:

I'm have the same problem two accounts trying to contact octopus about it is worse than bashing your head against a brick wall ...

Have you done as Dolor suggested?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78831333/#Comment_78831333

Dolor said:

As the readings that you supplied differ by >250kWhs for electricity then you can ask Octopus to raise an Agreed Readings Dispute.