Changing/leveling up wall between bedrooms made from false alcoves with fitted wardrobes

Lena60

Hi, we are buying a house with kind of false alcoves wall between 2 bedrooms
Currently the whole wall is a 2 fitted wardrobes in one bedroom right and left side of the wall and 1 middle/ centre one in second bedroom. The wall shape is ~~__~~
There is no chimney breast involved at all - simply just weird alcoves in both rooms.
We would like to level up the wall and create full straight flat wall in a bedroom where middle fitted wardrobe is, and in 2nd bedroon - remove 2 fitted wardrobes and wall in the middle (so kind of this shape - I__I ) to make that bedroom bigger
Could you please advise would we need a builing reg? Do you maybe know the reason why the wall has been orginally created this way? Maybe it must stay like that? But as we don't remove the wall  and just move part of it do we need to care about anything special?

FreeBear

Assuming it is a non-structural stud wall, there is no reason why you can't knock it down and put in a straight wall. Planning & building regs shouldn't be needed....

But.. Get a structural engineer to take a look before doing anything. If it is structural, there will be additional steps & design work to undertake before reaching for the hammers (and you'd probably want to involve Building Control).

Section62

Lena60 said:

Could you please advise would we need a builing reg? Do you maybe know the reason why the wall has been orginally created this way? Maybe it must stay like that? But as we don't remove the wall  and just move part of it do we need to care about anything special?

Building a wall that shape would give it more strength (see "serpentine wall").

Whether it was built that way for that reason rather than aesthetics/practicality is something you'd need advice from a structural engineer. There could also be other structural reasons - like supporting something above in that specific position.

If it is structural then you will need to follow the process for building control sign off.

Can you post a copy of the floorplans?

Lena60

Section62 said:

Lena60 said:

Could you please advise would we need a builing reg? Do you maybe know the reason why the wall has been orginally created this way? Maybe it must stay like that? But as we don't remove the wall  and just move part of it do we need to care about anything special?

Building a wall that shape would give it more strength (see "serpentine wall").

Whether it was built that way for that reason rather than aesthetics/practicality is something you'd need advice from a structural engineer. There could also be other structural reasons - like supporting something above in that specific position.

If it is structural then you will need to follow the process for building control sign off.

Can you post a copy of the floorplans?

They got the floorplan wrong but I marked with red lines how exactly it is (there is no doors from a hallway neither) and I'm adding the neighbours one for between the bedrooms (orginally exactly same but they moved the bedroom doors where one of the wardrobes is)

Also from dollhouse view over 2 floors looks like the wall below between living room and dining room is not exactly below neither of the walls between bedrooms.

We will be taking SE anyway as wanted to remove wall between kitchen and dining and possibly change mor things but I thought the wall between bedrooms will be "nice and easy" to do as a first and then started to think if I'm correct

Neighbours:

Section62

Lena60 said:

Also from dollhouse view over 2 floors looks like the wall below between living room and dining room is not exactly below neither of the walls between bedrooms.

We will be taking SE anyway as wanted to remove wall between kitchen and dining and possibly change mor things but I thought the wall between bedrooms will be "nice and easy" to do as a first and then started to think if I'm correct

Yes, I think you need to speak to a SE before doing anything.  If the opening between the diner and living rooms existed when the property was built then it is possible the wardrobe arrangement is designed to spread loads from above over multiple joists, plus also providing more stability to the structure overall.

Likewise, removing the kitchen/diner wall will need looking at carefully to make sure lateral support is maintained. There's a possibility of it being a case of altering/removing one wall or the other, but not both.

Doozergirl

How old is the house?  It's something that 'new build' developers do quite a lot. My in laws have the same in their '96 build.    

Lena60

It's a 50's house.

Would you say it is ok to book SE for structural calcs before we actually buy the house? So booking with the owner and having structural calcs instead of structural survey.

I mean - we would like to start the refurb asap and know exactly what we can or we can't do so we can preper the materials etc.

And also - what the next steps are - when we have the SE report with beams and other calculations, can we start the work straight away. I just don't know when council should be involved - after we finish job but before plasterboards or anytime before? There will be couple walls work, 2 new bathrooms, new door opening, creating storage space in a loft (not extension) etc. So quite a few bits, but what we can do we want to do on our own.

I just don't know what are the steps and what we should start from actually to be able to do work quickly and with all paperwork needed.

fenwick458

Lena60 said:

It's a 50's house.

Would you say it is ok to book SE for structural calcs before we actually buy the house?

all the SE I've dealt with in the past have quoted from a picture anyway(with local knowledge too im assuming)  so can you not send them plans and pictures and get an idea of what you can/can't do that way?
if you need pics just book another viewing with the EA to get them

Section62

Lena60 said:

It's a 50's house.

Would you say it is ok to book SE for structural calcs before we actually buy the house? So booking with the owner and having structural calcs instead of structural survey.

I mean - we would like to start the refurb asap and know exactly what we can or we can't do so we can preper the materials etc.

And also - what the next steps are - when we have the SE report with beams and other calculations, can we start the work straight away. I just don't know when council should be involved - after we finish job but before plasterboards or anytime before? There will be couple walls work, 2 new bathrooms, new door opening, creating storage space in a loft (not extension) etc. So quite a few bits, but what we can do we want to do on our own.

I just don't know what are the steps and what we should start from actually to be able to do work quickly and with all paperwork needed.

It was a fairly common technique from the 50's through to the 70's to economise on the use of materials - so that fits.

The SE is likely to need to do some intrusive investigations, which the vendor may/may not agree to you doing prior to completion.  So the first step is to find a SE, explain to them what you want to do, and find out what they can do.  With the building industry in the state it is in you may not find a SE free to do the job until after you complete anyway.

For building regs you'll almost certainly need to submit plans/calcs to the local council for approval before you start work. It is absolutely essential that BC are allowed to inspect before things are covered over, so for example if a beam is needed then BC will want to inspect it after it has been installed, but before anything else is done which obscures inspection - with Covid some BC departments are getting builders to submit photos instead of doing an on-site inspection.

Some of the other items on your list of projects are likely to need SE/BC involvement - especially the storage space in the loft.

Structural alterations can be quite complex to do, so if you have no experience in this you may want to think about getting a builder to do the work for you - and a good competent one will know how the BC process works and may have their own preference for getting BC signoff.

Lena60

Thank you very much for your answers.

I will now create my full "changes wish list" and will ask advice / quotes from a local Structural Engineers

Fingers crossed it's not a structural one ;-)

markin

It will likely be holding up 3x3 timbers and the plaster, so it will sag and crack if you don't support it when doing it.

Is it not the trend to put in storage like this and having bare rooms with just a bed and desk?