Not so Smart Parking

dommcd27

Hi Everyone, 

I know a registered keeper who has received an NTK from Smart Parking making some vague accusation that whoever was driving has either not purchased the appropriate time or has stayed longer than permitted. This came as a bit of a surprise as whoever may have been driving the vehicle fully believed that they had paid the appropriate amount to park (its an old school pay and display but with the need to give the machine your reg).

There are a couple of photos of the vehicle entering and leaving showing the total time to be 1 hour 11 minutes and a some seconds (none of the vehicle actually parked in a space).1 hours parking was paid for. Having read threads on this site and elsewhere, it seems that there should be a grace period both before and after parking. From what I understand, the driver may have been responsible for a 2 year old child at the time so I don't feel that 11 minutes is unreasonable to enter a car park, find a space, secure the vehicle, secure the child, locate a pay machine (read the signs, I will get to that in a minute) and pay. Then when returning to the vehicle, pack up and leave. As the driver was unaware of any transgression, they did not retain the ticket so I could not advise whether the majority of this supposed overstay (as I assume that's what their vague letter is alleging) was at the beginning or the end (but I suspect the beginning). 

The car park in question isn't exactly local to the keeper but I had the opportunity to visit it the other day. Sign at the entrance says to purchase a ticket from the machine, that its private land and to see T's and C's. There is a tiny picture of a camera to advise that ANPR is used to monitor, nothing about using it to charge (and its so small I only noticed because I took a picture, not as I was driving in). As you drive in there are plenty of signs but they are all (bar one) at the end of parking spaces so you can only get close to read one directly if you are lucky enough to park in front of one. Even then you would see only the tariffs and charges or the Important Terms and Conditions as they are displayed on separate signs. The only really accessible sign is located behind the payment machines and even then its only the tariffs and charges. The T's and C's are about 3 meters away on a pole facing in the opposite direction and partially blocked by a parking space and a bin. The tariffs sign obviously prioritises the hourly rates. It then does mention (in significantly smaller text) that it charges from point of entry to point of exit (driver doesn't recall seeing this, but I suppose you wouldn't if you are not used to the antics of these companies)  Thing is, by the time you have seen that you have already been in the cark park for some time and it seems completely against the BPA code of practice. Then and you still have to navigate to a sign containing the terms and conditions so you end up having no idea how long you have actually already been. It seems to be purposely set up to catch people out or bully them into paying for longer than they need.  The sign mentions the charge for breaching the T's and C's (which again are on a different sign) but I wouldn't say its the most prominent part of the sign.
Then there are these Important Terms and conditions. I have pretty good eyesight but I found them impossible to read from even a cars length away. Even when you can get close they are not easy to read and they are over 800 words, anyone with sight issues would have no chance (maybe I can upload some pictures at some point).

I've also seen the NTK and it doesn't look like its even trying to to be compliant with POFA. For example, while the T's and C's (if you are able to read them) in the car park might mention SAR, that's no help to the keeper who was not driving the vehicle and its not covered at all on the NTK. 

I have encouraged the keeper to dispute the notice. Does anybody think its worth sending anything more than the standard template that I've seen on the newbeeies thread to Smart, given that I have read some parking forums on this particular car park that indicate people have been charged by smart for alleged overstays of seconds? 

Any other advice would be welcome.

Umkomaas

Doesn't the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement contain specific information on tackling a Smart Parking charge?

Having read threads on this site and elsewhere, it seems that there should be a grace period both before and after parking.

No longer the case, the BPA changed that to suit and help further enrich their members. 

I've also seen the NTK and it doesn't look like its even trying to to be compliant with POFA. 

That's your key point.

Does anybody think its worth sending anything more than the standard template

Standard template with a final sentence to tell them that as they don't comply with PoFA, they cannot hold the keeper liable.

ihatetrump

I had a similar Thread with (Not So) Smart:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6306934/not-so-smart-parking-ltd-lost-again#latest

I challenged it and they went away - not PoFA compliant - as @Coupon-mad said at the time - an easy win.

Good luck

patient_dream

As Umkomaas says 

No longer the case, the BPA changed that to suit and help further enrich their members.

The BPA are a total disgrace and not fit for purpose.   But with the new code of practice, the BPA will end up just twiddling their thumbs ......... no more scam attempts

Coupon-mad

The new CoP draft for 2022 Government Regulation had both a consideration and a grace period.

But the OP needs none of that because Smart will go away or will lose at POPLA.  No keeper liability.  Make sure that the keeper doesn't add any words about what happened.

dommcd27

Thanks for the input everyone. I hope you all had a good Christmas (if Christmas is your thing). 

I had a chance to have a quick look at the 2020 code of practice and that change in initial grace periods. It seems to have been written with the sort of car park where you are given a ticket at entry (or if no barrier, where you still need to pay at a machine just before you leave) in mind. It's completely unsuitable for pay and display car parks and definitely forces you to overpay. Even if you choose to leave the car park, there is a good chance you are already going to be on the end of a charge. 

D_P_Dance

Have you read this?  Have you complained to your MP?

Read what Pete Wishart MP said recently in the House of commons about Smart Parking.

"I am sick and tired of receiving emails from people complaining about the behaviour of parking companies, telling me that they will never again visit Perth city centre because of the negative experience they had when they had the misfortune to end up in a car park operated by one of these companies. I have received more complaints about one car park in the city of Perth than about any other issue. That car park is operated by the lone ranger of the parking cowboys: the hated and appalling Smart Parking—I see that many other Members are unfortunate enough to have Smart Parking operating in their constituencies. It has reached the stage where one member of my staff now spends a good part of each day just helping my constituents and visitors to my constituency to navigate the appeals process.

…
The BPA does not have the ability to regulate these companies and has shown no sign whatsoever that it is trying to get on top of some of the sharper practices. The BPA gives a veneer of legitimacy to some of the more outlandish rogue operators by including them in their membership, allowing them to continue to operate. The Bill will oblige operators such as Smart Parking to amend their practices.

dommcd27

That's interesting. Smart parking do seem to be (in the car park Concerned) praying on people assuming it works like a council operated pay and display. I mean if its using anpr, why have a machine that issues tickets?

Would the complaint be to the keepers MP or the MP of the area in which the car park is located? 

KeithP

dommcd27 said:

Would the complaint be to the keepers MP or the MP of the area in which the car park is located? 

Parliamentary protocol dictates that you complain to your Member of Parliament.

You can of course send a copy of your complaint to the MP whose constituency cover the alleged parking place and I am sure they will be keen to hear about what is happening on 'their patch'.

Coupon-mad

Just send the template appeal and Smart will give up.  No need to overthink a non-POFA PCN.

patient_dream

dommcd27 said:

That's interesting. Smart parking do seem to be (in the car park Concerned) praying on people assuming it works like a council operated pay and display. I mean if its using anpr, why have a machine that issues tickets?

Would the complaint be to the keepers MP or the MP of the area in which the car park is located? 

Smart Parking is just one of the BPA members that could get the BPA IN TROUBLE when the new code of practice comes in. 

The BPA need to clean up their act and rid themselves of these rogue traders