Outfox the market. Back billing. Total mess

MWT

dcreager said:

QrizB said:

The OP states:

As a last resort I calculated the effecct of their error on the gas I had used in the last 12 months.   This came out to be approx £700

So the total amount of gas used during the past 12 months is around £1080 (700*2.83/1.83). I'm guessing that the OP has also used around £900-worth of electricity in the past year, and because they're on a dual-fuel tariff OTM have allocated all the payments made to date against the legacy bills. They are in effect being asked to pay for both fuels for the past 12 months.

It would help if the OP could confirm this, or (if I'm wrong) explain exactly what the £2000 relates to.

Sigh,  It is a little more complex.....So...they undercharged me for gas for three years,   during those years I kept running a large credit balance and received refunds this appears to be inflating the amount they are charging.   As I have noted, I do not really understand the way this is all being calculated.

Ah... that might explain it, they are allowed to reverse the refunds when they recalculate the back-billing, that is a view the ombudsman took some time ago and has been reported on here a couple of times since....

The logic runs along the lines of the payments you were making were proportionate to the real correct billing and the excess balance that was refunded was a result of the error, so it is the refund that was wrong, not the over payment.

dcreager

MWT said:

dcreager said:

QrizB said:

The OP states:

As a last resort I calculated the effecct of their error on the gas I had used in the last 12 months.   This came out to be approx £700

So the total amount of gas used during the past 12 months is around £1080 (700*2.83/1.83). I'm guessing that the OP has also used around £900-worth of electricity in the past year, and because they're on a dual-fuel tariff OTM have allocated all the payments made to date against the legacy bills. They are in effect being asked to pay for both fuels for the past 12 months.

It would help if the OP could confirm this, or (if I'm wrong) explain exactly what the £2000 relates to.

Sigh,  It is a little more complex.....So...they undercharged me for gas for three years,   during those years I kept running a large credit balance and received refunds this appears to be inflating the amount they are charging.   As I have noted, I do not really understand the way this is all being calculated.

Ah... that might explain it, they are allowed to reverse the refunds when they recalculate the back-billing, that is a view the ombudsman took some time ago and has been reported on here a couple of times since....

The logic runs along the lines of the payments you were making were proportionate to the real correct billing and the excess balance that was refunded was a result of the error, so it is the refund that was wrong, not the over payment.

Yes this seems to be the case.  I still think it is 'wrong'   I also don't understand why this is not easier to ascertain.   Outfox could have been upfront about this or indeed the Ombudsman could have been clearer.   Thanks for your comments

 I will search for the posts you refer to, if you have any links or suggested search terms it would be much appreciated

MWT

dcreager said:

 I will search for the posts you refer to, if you have any links or suggested search terms it would be much appreciated

I'll see if I can find it for you...

QrizB

Getting back to the subject at hand, it seems that OTM may have followed the rules after all and sadly you could well owe them £2000 for gas previously used but not billed. On top of this your ongoing gas bill will be 2.89x what you've ben used to.

Have they offered you a payment plan? Are you on a low income or have other reasons for this to cause you hardship?

Also, £1080/yr for gas is quite a lot; something like 25000kWh/yr, twice the average. Do you have a particularly large or draughty home? Is there anything you can do to reduce your use?

MWT

This is a good link to read over...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76950779

It confirms the principle that DD payments made can re reallocated to cover corrected old bills beyond the 12 month limit.

dcreager

MWT said:

This is a good link to read over...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76950779

It confirms the principle that DD payments made can re reallocated to cover corrected old bills beyond the 12 month limit.

Thank you.    I appreciate the help.   

dcreager

QrizB said:

Getting back to the subject at hand, it seems that OTM may have followed the rules after all and sadly you could well owe them £2000 for gas previously used but not billed. On top of this your ongoing gas bill will be 2.89x what you've ben used to.

Have they offered you a payment plan? Are you on a low income or have other reasons for this to cause you hardship?

Also, £1080/yr for gas is quite a lot; something like 25000kWh/yr, twice the average. Do you have a particularly large or draughty home? Is there anything you can do to reduce your use?

Thanks.   I am not on a low income.    I appreciate I am going to have to pay this, I do want to try and raise the mess as something that should be addressed by the code,  I am speechless about the total lack of transparency around how Outfox approached this and also pretty unhappy about the Ombudsman's competence and motivation to help the customer. (By help, I don't mean by helping me avoid paying something I should, I mean by making things clear and understandable which they have failed to do)

dcreager

MWT said:

This is a good link to read over...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76950779

It confirms the principle that DD payments made can re reallocated to cover corrected old bills beyond the 12 month limit.

Omigod!   Almost exactly my scenario. sigh   wish I had seen this 6 months ago, must improve my google skills.

MWT

dcreager said:

MWT said:

This is a good link to read over...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76950779

It confirms the principle that DD payments made can re reallocated to cover corrected old bills beyond the 12 month limit.

Omigod!   Almost exactly my scenario. sigh   wish I had seen this 6 months ago, must improve my google skills.

There is an earlier one as well, but I can't find it at the moment.

As you will see in that thread, I was not convinced it was a reasonable result either, but the Ombudsman is sadly consistent on this point

wild666

People should really download their monthly bills, it only takes up a few kb on a PC per bill, a year worth of bills will be about 2 Mb. If the person notices that they are billed incorrectly M3 instead of ft.3 then they should inform their supplier of this ASAP. 
Even if the bill cannot be downloaded from the suppliers site there is a simple way to get the bills off the site using print screen and opening the saved screen in paint and cutting the bill part of the image and saving it in a document, it might take 4 or 5 shots to get the full bill off the site but it's worth it. It is unlikely that the option to download a statement isn't an option on todays bills but if it isn't then the option above is the way to do it.