Tenants in common and their rights

CBmum

Hi there
I have a question about tenancies in common. My parents owned their house as tenants in common. When my mother died years ago, her 50% share was divided equally between me and my brother. So we now each own 25% and our father owns 50%.
He has a new partner, with whom he proposes to enter a Civil Partnership. He is talking about changing his will, but also talking about transferring his share of the house into a joint tenancy with his new partner. As I understand it, on our father's death his share would then default to his partner outside of the estate, while we retain our 25% shares, creating a possibly tricky three-way ownership situation.
My question is, can we, as tenants in common and between us owning 50% of the house, prevent him from bringing his partner in as joint tenant to his 50% - or can he effectively do what he likes with his share?
Many thanks!

SavingPennies_2

Don't know the answer (Im sure someone else will) but interesting question, I didn't think you could have both tenants in common and joint tenant on the same house. Would it not be easier for him to leave his 50% share in his will to his new wife? Or even buy you both out of your shares? 

sammyjammy

I imagine you'd find it hard to stop him splitting his share into 2 x 25%, if you can stop it he can just leave that share to her in his will should he wish.

Why would you want to prevent him doing what he wants with his share?

Slithery

All owners of a property have to sign the transfer forms for ownership to change.

canaldumidi

You would have to agree if he wanted to either a) add his partner onto the property title (transfer ownership from him/you/sister to him/her/you/sister), and/or b) change the title from Tenants In Common to Joint Tenants.

However there is nothing preventing him from changing his will to leave his 50% share to her on his death.

As you say, that would create a tricky family situation if you do not get on, or cannot agree what to do with the property.

I'm guessing you do not live there? Or do you?

And I'm guessing dad and partner do live there, right?

So on his death, she would be in occupation, and quite possibly want to remain in occupation, as well as owning 50% yes?

The ideal solution would be to sell, once Probate is granted, and split the money 50/25/25 after costs, but this could ony be achieved either with her agreement, or with an expensive court order.

Who is likely to be the Executer of dad's will? And is his Estate likely to be much greater than just the house (don't forget his yacht on the Med), with Inheritance Tax to pay?

Keep_pedalling

Do you actually own your share or is it held in trust with your father holding a life interest?

Would your father and his partner consider buying out the share he does not own?

getmore4less

Legal ownership is only ever joint.

As above you need to establish if there is a trust for your beneficial interest(typically life interest) or if you inherited absolutely.

Check the legal ownership.
If there is a trust who are the trustees.

Only the legal owners need to agree changes.

Worth a read
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-trusts-of-land/practice-guide-24-private-trusts-of-land


Also where there are more than 2 owners you can have a combination of joint and TIC.

Eg if A,B,C are joint tenants if A severs they become TIC with B,&C as joint tenants.

SDLT_Geek

getmore4less said:

Legal ownership is only ever joint.

As above you need to establish if there is a trust for your beneficial interest(typically life interest) or if you inherited absolutely.

Check the legal ownership.
If there is a trust who are the trustees.

Only the legal owners need to agree changes.

Worth a read
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-trusts-of-land/practice-guide-24-private-trusts-of-land


Also where there are more than 2 owners you can have a combination of joint and TIC.

Eg if A,B,C are joint tenants if A severs they become TIC with B,&C as joint tenants.

This matches my understanding of the position.  

The “legal” title can only ever be held as “joint tenants” but the “beneficial” ownership can be held under a combination of joint tenants and tenants in common.

dottiec

getmore4less said:

Legal ownership is only ever joint.

As above you need to establish if there is a trust for your beneficial interest(typically life interest) or if you inherited absolutely.

Check the legal ownership.
If there is a trust who are the trustees.

Only the legal owners need to agree changes.

Worth a read
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-trusts-of-land/practice-guide-24-private-trusts-of-land


Also where there are more than 2 owners you can have a combination of joint and TIC.

Eg if A,B,C are joint tenants if A severs they become TIC with B,&C as joint tenants.

This matches my understanding of the position.  

The “legal” title can only ever be held as “joint tenants” but the “beneficial” ownership can be held under a combination of joint tenants and tenants in common.

I have just found this email which may help in my quest for answers to a property query.

1   My two sons and myself have joint ownership of the property in which my eldest son and I live.  I would like to ensure my eldest son and myself have a legal right to remain in the property until we die and I would be happy to reduce my share of ownership if this would help achieve this in my eldest son's case.

From the above post, would it be possible for me to sever my joint ownership and become a beneficial tenant in common (I don't really understand this) and then reduce my one third share (presumably via my will) to favour my eldest son. 

If this is possible and would therefore result in my eldest son owning more than one half share on my death, would this automatically mean he would have the right to stay in the property.  Also in this scenario my eldest son would own a larger share than his brother - is this possible if they are joint owners of two thirds of the property at the time of my death.

2   Do we need to consider Life Trusts or something similar.  I am trying to gather as much information as I can before going to a solicitor to enable me to be prepared.

3   If we leave the situation as it is and I die they will jointly own the property - in this case would my youngest son be able to force a sale.  If the answer is no, then maybe it would be better to leave things as they are.  

My sons do share ownership of other properties so in the end one will not receive more than the other - my concern is for my eldest son to be able to remain in our current home. 

If anyone can offer any advice or suggestions, that would be very much appreciated.

doodling

Hi,

In general, any of the joint owners of a property can force a sale.  If the other owners don't cooperate then it would require a court order to force the sale but that would normally be granted (the only exception I can think of is in the case of divorce although that normally results in a delay - e.g. until childeren reach a certain age rather than being open ended).

There is nothing you can do to stop your father retaining his right to force a sale unless he gives away or sells his interest in the property.  If he gives away or sells (or bequeathes) some or all of his share to someone else then that person will also gain the right to force a sale.

Unless you can convince your father to give his share to you (or to a trust for your benefit) or sell it to you then there is nothing you can do.

RAS

dottiec said:

getmore4less said:

Legal ownership is only ever joint.

As above you need to establish if there is a trust for your beneficial interest(typically life interest) or if you inherited absolutely.

Check the legal ownership.
If there is a trust who are the trustees.

Only the legal owners need to agree changes.

Worth a read
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-trusts-of-land/practice-guide-24-private-trusts-of-land


Also where there are more than 2 owners you can have a combination of joint and TIC.

Eg if A,B,C are joint tenants if A severs they become TIC with B,&C as joint tenants.

This matches my understanding of the position.  

The “legal” title can only ever be held as “joint tenants” but the “beneficial” ownership can be held under a combination of joint tenants and tenants in common.

I have just found this email which may help in my quest for answers to a property query.

1   My two sons and myself have joint ownership of the property in which my eldest son and I live.  I would like to ensure my eldest son and myself have a legal right to remain in the property until we die and I would be happy to reduce my share of ownership if this would help achieve this in my eldest son's case.

From the above post, would it be possible for me to sever my joint ownership and become a beneficial tenant in common (I don't really understand this) and then reduce my one third share (presumably via my will) to favour my eldest son. 

If this is possible and would therefore result in my eldest son owning more than one half share on my death, would this automatically mean he would have the right to stay in the property.  Also in this scenario my eldest son would own a larger share than his brother - is this possible if they are joint owners of two thirds of the property at the time of my death.

2   Do we need to consider Life Trusts or something similar.  I am trying to gather as much information as I can before going to a solicitor to enable me to be prepared.

3   If we leave the situation as it is and I die they will jointly own the property - in this case would my youngest son be able to force a sale.  If the answer is no, then maybe it would be better to leave things as they are.  

My sons do share ownership of other properties so in the end one will not receive more than the other - my concern is for my eldest son to be able to remain in our current home. 

If anyone can offer any advice or suggestions, that would be very much appreciated.

You need to start your own thread.