Faulty item and had to claim back from CC company - now eBay seller wants return 20 weeks later

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

How much was the vacuum cleaner and how much did you spend to have it repaired? Was this a business seller or a private seller? 

If you decide to return it the packaging doesn't really matter as it's value isn't significant enough for the seller to reclaim. 

If it's repaired and you are happy with it offer the seller some money, otherwise advise them they can arrange for it's collection. 

Worth a question re court action, they engaged with the OP, agreed it was damaged and then went silent, so has the seller mitigated their losses and would the seller be able to claim costs?

Totally disagree. Why do you believe that?

How much is the product box going to be worth vs the minimum the seller is realistically going to get away with claiming from small claims?

If the seller wanted the box they should have followed eBay’s rules and arranged the return straight away rather than stringing the OP along.

The difference between a boxed and unboxed item. Clearly there is some value, as ebay have them as options.

Yes there's value, is small claims going to entertain someone claiming £20 or £40 for a box missing from damaged vacuum cleaner?

Based on other comments here (this board) I was under the impression trivial claims for small amounts are likely to be dismissed by the process so how is the seller going to get the money for the missing box?

Who knows, however you saying 'It doesn't really matter' about the packaging is a bit disingenuous.

So it what sense does it matter then?

In the sense that neither of us are magistrates so no way of knowing which way it could go, but as you admitted, the packaging does have some value.

born_again

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

FlipMark said:

Thanks all. And I understand the position of most posters of 'you've had the refund, so you should return the item.', which I do also believe. I do not want anyone to be out of pocket.

However and for a bit more context, this individual was disingenuous throughout the weeks of me acting in good faith and basically tried to scam their way out of responsibility and granting a refund. They only communicated once they thought they were safe and outside of the window in which they were obligated to provide a refund. Thankfully both eBay and my credit card company corroborated my side of the story and the charge was reversed upon my appeal. They never agreed to the refund - their hand was forced.

IF I was dealing with an organisation or retailer, I would feel a lot more comfortable about going through this process or trying to reach a compromise. The issue here is that I do note believe this is what the individual wants. I believe their intention is that by requesting the item to be returned 20+ weeks after delivery, they know there is a fair chance that the condition has deteriorated (it hasn't) or it's been altogether discarded (it hasn't) and they are trying to launch a counter claim. My only issue is that I do not have the original product packaging anymore, and whether this would be enough for someone to find in their favour. I want to avoid the situation where I have to pay £350 and be left without any item.

Therefore a solution, if I can get comfortable dealing with a dishonest person, is to negotiate a fee that both sides would be happy with, but if this were to happen, then it would likely happen outside of eBay, etc., so I am not sure what security or guarantees I would have.

Am I backed into a corner because I don't have the original packaging?

If the seller was a business there are two things to note, the goods remained at the trader’s risk until they came in to your possession so as they were damaged whilst under their risk their loss is the value of a damaged vacuum cleaner.

Secondly if the trader refuses to repair or replace the goods you have the right to a refund but you also have the right to a price reduction where you keep the goods and accept their faults in exchange for the price being reduced. 

So if you offer the seller some money to keep the vacuum and both can agree to a price this is all good as far as I can see.

If that can’t happen then allowing the trader to collect the goods as they are is also fine.

If the seller was a private seller selling a one off vacuum they no longer wanted the goods must be as described but I’m not sure where risk passes.

The seller can argue about the box missing but it’s very unlikely they have an avenue to actually reclaim it.

As far as eBay will be concerned the matter is done and dusted. 

If you file a chargeback for an item purchased on eBay because it was not as described eBay advises sellers that they will try to recover the item for the seller but doesn’t guarantee it will happen, if eBay haven’t told you that you must return it by now then they aren’t going to. 

From OP
It is only now around 21 weeks later, that the seller has sent me a message and said that because the CC found in my favour, I had 'in effect received a refund' and therefore they would like me to return the item 'in the condition received'.

Which would imply that ebay have taken the money off the seller & they now want the goods back. Which is fair enough.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

How much was the vacuum cleaner and how much did you spend to have it repaired? Was this a business seller or a private seller? 

If you decide to return it the packaging doesn't really matter as it's value isn't significant enough for the seller to reclaim. 

If it's repaired and you are happy with it offer the seller some money, otherwise advise them they can arrange for it's collection. 

Worth a question re court action, they engaged with the OP, agreed it was damaged and then went silent, so has the seller mitigated their losses and would the seller be able to claim costs?

Totally disagree. Why do you believe that?

How much is the product box going to be worth vs the minimum the seller is realistically going to get away with claiming from small claims?

If the seller wanted the box they should have followed eBay’s rules and arranged the return straight away rather than stringing the OP along.

The difference between a boxed and unboxed item. Clearly there is some value, as ebay have them as options.

Yes there's value, is small claims going to entertain someone claiming £20 or £40 for a box missing from damaged vacuum cleaner?

Based on other comments here (this board) I was under the impression trivial claims for small amounts are likely to be dismissed by the process so how is the seller going to get the money for the missing box?

Who knows, however you saying 'It doesn't really matter' about the packaging is a bit disingenuous.

So it what sense does it matter then?

In the sense that neither of us are magistrates so no way of knowing which way it could go, but as you admitted, the packaging does have some value.

Fair enough, so in the real world should the OP restore the goods to the seller, 99.999% it doesn’t matter if the product box is missing.

In the world of Internet forums there’s a 0.001% chance the seller will spend £35 to file a claim in an attempt to place value on a second hand box belonging to a broken vacuum cleaner and should the court accept such a claim they’ll ignore that the seller acknowledged they delivered damaged goods and didn’t mitigate their losses by refunding buyer in the first instance and instead of just awarding a few pounds for a missing box will also award all of the costs the seller has incurred as part of the process. 

DB1904

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

How much was the vacuum cleaner and how much did you spend to have it repaired? Was this a business seller or a private seller? 

If you decide to return it the packaging doesn't really matter as it's value isn't significant enough for the seller to reclaim. 

If it's repaired and you are happy with it offer the seller some money, otherwise advise them they can arrange for it's collection. 

Worth a question re court action, they engaged with the OP, agreed it was damaged and then went silent, so has the seller mitigated their losses and would the seller be able to claim costs?

Totally disagree. Why do you believe that?

How much is the product box going to be worth vs the minimum the seller is realistically going to get away with claiming from small claims?

If the seller wanted the box they should have followed eBay’s rules and arranged the return straight away rather than stringing the OP along.

The difference between a boxed and unboxed item. Clearly there is some value, as ebay have them as options.

Yes there's value, is small claims going to entertain someone claiming £20 or £40 for a box missing from damaged vacuum cleaner?

Based on other comments here (this board) I was under the impression trivial claims for small amounts are likely to be dismissed by the process so how is the seller going to get the money for the missing box?

Who knows, however you saying 'It doesn't really matter' about the packaging is a bit disingenuous.

So it what sense does it matter then?

In the sense that neither of us are magistrates so no way of knowing which way it could go, but as you admitted, the packaging does have some value.

It wouldn't go to Magistrates court but you're as legally qualified as a lay Magistrate.

Jenni_D

And the buyer will use consumer LAW (which is binding on all courts) in their defence, in that they had no obligation to retain the packaging for a faulty device, and certainly no obligation to return (or rather, allow the collection of) the faulty goods in the original packaging.

Even if the 0.001% probability of a claim was realised, I think the probability of such a claim succeeding (if properly defended) is much less than 50% ... and since small claims are judged on the balance of probabilities .........  

RogerBareford

FlipMark said:

TELLIT01 said:

You have had a full refund so the vendor is entitled to have the item returned.  At this time of year many businesses will have lots of packaging boxes available so you may be able to use that to pack it back up.  The vendor should be liable for the cost of returning it.  You do not have any right to keep the item.

Thanks for clarifying, my intention is not to keep the faulty item, but ensure that I do not end up paying for it again via some sort of claim due to a technicality.

Specifically what about the question of 'returning the item in the same condition', is it feasible to request the item be returned in the same state (including original item packaging which has been discarded) after 20 weeks? I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect someone to sit on a faulty item (as delivered) for five months. It's very possible (but thankfully I did not) that I could have just discarded the faulty item having not heard from the vendor for months.

What did the credit card company tell you to do with the item once you had the money back? Did they tell you to discard it?

GrumpyDil

We still don't know if this was a charge back or S75 claim.

From OP's post Ebay were not involved and somehow they managed this claim directly with their credit card provider.

OP, if this was done directly with your credit card check with them if it was a charge back or S75 claim.

If S75 then ask them want they want you to do with the vacuum. If charge back then yes you need to deal with the seller. 

born_again

If the seller is involved in wanting goods back, it will be a chargeback. 

S75 for this amount would be a simple write off at bank end. Not worth the cost to even attempt a call to retailer.