Property Dispute

Mota_22

Hey Lovely people

I have a situation where l bought a house in 2000 jointly with a sibling. He only helped with coming on as a joint owner for convenience of getting mortgage

I have paid mortgage/maintenance for last 20 years, he has been AWOL for last 20 years. He has never lived at property.

Myself and my younger sibling have lived at property for 20 years jointly managing everything, he wants to evicthim them, he have invested over 50k in property.

Now turned up demanding 50% share of the property at market value.

He has demanded a share after shortly committing fraud with late fathers’ estate. The banks are now after him and is desperate for cash.

How will he stand in court……

Slithery

Are you joint tenants or tenants in common?

Is there a 'deed of trust'?

Mota_22

we are joint tenants  - no deed of trust

Mota_22

Slithery said:

Are you joint tenants or tenants in common?

Is there a 'deed of trust'?

we are joint tenants  - no deed of trust

Brie

So he and you bought the property together - in which case he owns a percentage of it.  So I would think that he "deserves" a portion at current value.  

Frankly I would start from the beginning and put together a spreadsheet that shows the amounts you each contributed initially.

Then add how much you have paid towards the mortgage ever since.  Add another column that shows how much your other sibling has contributed.

Then add in how much you have spent on renovations, upgrades, replacing boilers, roof tiles, carpet, repainting basically anything that isn't loose and would fall out of the building if you were able to turn it upside down and give it a shake.  

That would then be the basis of deciding how much he might be entitled to if it went to court.  Hopefully it won't come to that as it will no doubt be very expensive for all concerned.  But it might give you a figure to work with to pay him off.  If he is desperate for cash he's unlikely to be able to want to waste ££ on a solicitor.

re the other sibling living there - is there any rental agreement or anything regarding the right to live there?  Could you "find" something that you both might have signed 20 years back??  Even a hand written note might suffice.  I can't think how your othe sibling could evict anyone from a property that he's not been involved with for 20 years.  

As for the fraud - well it's dreadful but really nothing to do with this situation.  But if you did go to court then it might be an interesting side note for the judge.

p00hsticks

Brie said:

So he and you bought the property together - in which case he owns a percentage of it.  So I would think that he "deserves" a portion at current value.  

Frankly I would start from the beginning and put together a spreadsheet that shows the amounts you each contributed initially.

Then add how much you have paid towards the mortgage ever since.  Add another column that shows how much your other sibling has contributed.

Then add in how much you have spent on renovations, upgrades, replacing boilers, roof tiles, carpet, repainting basically anything that isn't loose and would fall out of the building if you were able to turn it upside down and give it a shake.  

That would then be the basis of deciding how much he might be entitled to if it went to court. 

If you are going to do it like this, you also need to allow for the fact that the OP has been living in the property for the entire time without paying rent, even though they only own half of it - so to balance the books they should be deducting half the rental value of the property.

If the property has risen substantially in value over the last 10 years, it might be worth pointing out that may well have a Capital Gains Tax liability on any profit he makes from selling his half of the property.

Mota_22

Brie said:

So he and you bought the property together - in which case he owns a percentage of it.  So I would think that he "deserves" a portion at current value.  

Frankly I would start from the beginning and put together a spreadsheet that shows the amounts you each contributed initially.

Then add how much you have paid towards the mortgage ever since.  Add another column that shows how much your other sibling has contributed.

Then add in how much you have spent on renovations, upgrades, replacing boilers, roof tiles, carpet, repainting basically anything that isn't loose and would fall out of the building if you were able to turn it upside down and give it a shake.  

That would then be the basis of deciding how much he might be entitled to if it went to court.  Hopefully it won't come to that as it will no doubt be very expensive for all concerned.  But it might give you a figure to work with to pay him off.  If he is desperate for cash he's unlikely to be able to want to waste ££ on a solicitor.

re the other sibling living there - is there any rental agreement or anything regarding the right to live there?  Could you "find" something that you both might have signed 20 years back??  Even a hand written note might suffice.  I can't think how your othe sibling could evict anyone from a property that he's not been involved with for 20 years.  

As for the fraud - well it's dreadful but really nothing to do with this situation.  But if you did go to court then it might be an interesting side note for the judge.

Thank you so much for your reply @Brie. The deposit on the house was put down by late father and the verbal agreement was that myself and the joint owner would get our inheritance whilst he was alive. Which we both received, and then sell the property to younger sibling at mortgage value.

The younger sibling who lived with us was led to believe the property would be sold to him at mortgage value therefore he has invested in the property for the last 20 years and lives with his family. unfortunately nothing in writing but actions speak for themselves here. 

I am happy to stick to the at agreement.  Whilst alive the joint owner took thousands from my late father to build his own property portfolio.  

Within weeks of father passing he has now demanded 50% of this property which for last 20 years he has had no interest in.

I am not making any financial gains on it by selling to my younger sibling. Just sticking to what was agreed to.

Its messy but i have everything to prove cost wise.  

I like your idea about the spreadsheet and to be honest i would be happy to give him a settlement figure as it wont be much by the time we add up all spent on property and the mortgage paid.  

Mota_22

p00hsticks said:

Brie said:

So he and you bought the property together - in which case he owns a percentage of it.  So I would think that he "deserves" a portion at current value.  

Frankly I would start from the beginning and put together a spreadsheet that shows the amounts you each contributed initially.

Then add how much you have paid towards the mortgage ever since.  Add another column that shows how much your other sibling has contributed.

Then add in how much you have spent on renovations, upgrades, replacing boilers, roof tiles, carpet, repainting basically anything that isn't loose and would fall out of the building if you were able to turn it upside down and give it a shake.  

That would then be the basis of deciding how much he might be entitled to if it went to court. 

If you are going to do it like this, you also need to allow for the fact that the OP has been living in the property for the entire time without paying rent, even though they only own half of it - so to balance the books they should be deducting half the rental value of the property.

If the property has risen substantially in value over the last 10 years, it might be worth pointing out that may well have a Capital Gains Tax liability on any profit he makes from selling his half of the property.

Hi 
thank you for the reply

The OP has never resided at the property. Not paid an interest to anything in relation to property. Until father passes away, then it was all about what he would gain.  

PS didnt turn up to funeral but hey ho lets go for the money. 

Brie

OK - so again with the spreadsheet - note what your father put in and maybe note what your sibling also gained from your father just to get a fully rounded picture.  If it was me (OCD on the excel front) I'd do one version with his fraud and another without.  Just for balance.

And yes - CGT!!  Something that would affect him but not you!!  Excellent!!!

GDB2222

You have a choice here. Either, get together with sibling and agree something. Or, go to court, and spend a large chunk of the property value on lawyers.

canaldumidi

p00hsticks makes a good counter-point:

You have had the use/benefit of ownership for 20 years, without having to 'share' your occupation with him.

He has had no use/benefit of ownership for 20 years.

So really you should have been paying him for the use of his 50%, at 50% of the market rental rate.