LPA - who pays top-up care fees?

BrainDrained

Sorry if this isn't the right place for this post, not really sure what category is most appropriate.

It's looking like it's time to set up LPA for my very elderly step-father.   We are thinking one of his sons and one of his step-daughters to do it jointly.
My sister seems to think that anyone who is named as having LPA could be liable in the future to pay the fees if he needs to go into a care home.

At the moment he would be in a position to self-fund for a very limited time, to be honest I'm not exactly sure how much he has in savings but we are probably taking of total assets including property of around £220K - £250K, which won't last that long.  When the money runs out I wouldn't like to see him moved into a very basic home paid for by the local authority but I gather this is the only option if he has no money of his own left.  Sister thinks that if she is named as having control over his financial affairs then she would become personally liable for any top-up fees.  I don't think this would apply unless she (and the other joint administrator) had previously given them an assurance and signed a contract that they would pay the fees.  Would it be usual for this sort of contract to be signed right at the start, while there is enough money to provide a couple of years of care?

EDIT TO ADD - Should add that this question has only been raised because we are having discussions about who should be named on the LPA application.  We are generally OK with handling financial stuff but have no experience of care home funding.

Mojisola

BrainDrained said:

It's looking like it's time to set up LPA for my very elderly step-father.   We are thinking one of his sons and one of his step-daughters to do it jointly.
My sister seems to think that anyone who is named as having LPA could be liable in the future to pay the fees if he needs to go into a care home.

The attorneys won't be personally financially liable.

If any of them sign a contract to pay top-up fees, that will be an individual decision and nothing to do with an attorney.

BrainDrained

Mojisola said:
The attorneys won't be personally financially liable.

If any of them sign a contract to pay top-up fees, that will be an individual decision and nothing to do with an attorney.

That's what I thought, but is it likely they would be asked to guarantee future payments right at the start?

cattie

This may help you, though I'm unsure whether different local authorities have their own way of doing things.

An elderley friend of my sister had to sell her flat to go into a private care home. My sister had estimated that her friend would have exhausted all of the money after about 4yrs. So, she started making enquires after friend had been in the home for just over 3yrs to find out what would happen when there was no money left to privately fund her stay in the care home. She was told that as the lady had been self funding for the previous years, that the local authority would meet the continuing cost of her care in the home once her assets were exhausted.

It turned out that the friend sadly died just a few months prior to exhausting her funds though.

Mojisola

BrainDrained said:

Mojisola said:
The attorneys won't be personally financially liable.

If any of them sign a contract to pay top-up fees, that will be an individual decision and nothing to do with an attorney.

That's what I thought, but is it likely they would be asked to guarantee future payments right at the start?

If a home tries that, refuse.  If the management insists, find another home.

From my experience with Dad, because he was self-funding (although with a deferred payment scheme until the house was sold), I was able to pay the difference between the council's contribution and the care home fees from his funds.

As with the majority of residents, he didn't live long enough to use up all his capital so we didn't face the problem of what would happen if he became reliant on council funding.

There is only one home in our area that accepts people at the council rate and there's no way I would have let him go there.

bouicca21

Typically once someone needs to go into a care home they do so for a comparatively short time - I think it averages only about 18 months.  

Keep_pedalling

Your sister is hopelessly wrong. This needs to be done as a matter of urgency while he still has all his mental faculties, when they start going you are into the long winded and expensive process of obtaining deputyship. While you are thinking about it get your own in place as well.

RAS

Keep_pedalling said:

Your sister is hopelessly wrong. This needs to be done as a matter of urgency while he still has all his mental faculties, when they start going you are into the long winded and expensive process of obtaining deputyship. While you are thinking about it get your own in place as well.

Agreed. Get this done urgently, as deputyship is not  fun and costs a lot more.

It's taking extra time to get LPA's registered so it may be wise to for one of the attorneys go with him to the bank and see if they will allow an additional signatory or a second card. Assuming he agrees.

elsien

BrainDrained said:

Mojisola said:
The attorneys won't be personally financially liable.

If any of them sign a contract to pay top-up fees, that will be an individual decision and nothing to do with an attorney.

That's what I thought, but is it likely they would be asked to guarantee future payments right at the start?

They can be asked. They are perfectly within their rights to decline. Third party top ups are voluntary. But he also needs to consider that if he goes into an expensive place and a discount can’t be negotiated then he may have to move somewhere cheaper at the point his money runs out. The local authority will pay the top up themselves in some circumstances but only up to a limited amount per week. 

Also a gentle reminder that the decision about an LPA is your step-fathers so it’s down to him who he chooses to appoint both as main attorneys and also as replacements, whatever anyone else thinks. 

Is he on board with the LPA suggestion? It took me about 18 months after first mention for my parent to actually get round setting hers up. She agreed the need, but couldn’t quite bring herself to the practicalities because it wasn’t something  she wanted to think about. 

Gavin83

Without being harsh if he requires care it’s unlikely he’ll live long enough for all that money to deplete. Hard to say without knowing what his income is (he’d get extra, such as attendance allowance) but I’d expect that to last 4-5 years.

Signing the LPA of attorney doesn’t make you liable for anything. The only circumstances in which you might become liable is if you sign a separate agreement (so don’t do this) or if you’re guilty of financial abuse.

Lets say he does enter care and he stays long enough for all the money to go. In those circumstances it’s probably best to assume that without family support he’ll need to move. The family wouldn’t be expected to pay the full fee however, the council would make a large contribution so it could end up affordable. In some circumstances the council or the home themselves might pay the extra but this is extremely rare and certainly shouldn’t be relied upon.

getmore4less

It's looking like it's time to set up LPA for my very elderly step-father. We are thinking one of his sons and one of his step-daughters to do it jointly.

The responsibility for driving LPA application is the donor

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/making-decisions-for-someone-else/giving-someone-power-of-attorney/

They decide who they want to act as attorney and they need to find a  suitable independent certificate provider.

Given the underlying question there looks like a steep learning curve on the legal responsibilities for anyone taking on the responsibility of attorney.

These are driven by The Mental Capacity Act.

Loads of guidance  about start with the code of practice

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mental-capacity-act-code-of-practice