2022 Frugal Living Challenge

Floss

cw18 said:

It was the only reason I could see for why the energy companies were so keen to get them installed.   So I've resisted all 'offers' of having one.

However, I suspect I will have one foisted on me soon.   According to the 'net the lifespan of a traditional meter is 10-20 years (25 at a stretch), and my meters were installed when my property was built 20 years ago.

My water board foisted one on me using the same tactic 8 or 9 years ago.

I worked for the former MANWEB before & after privatisation and we changed meters after 15 years as they need recalibration. Gas meters will be the same, particularly aa they are mechanical.

I have smart meters and to be honest, I quite like being able to immediately see the impact of having 2 extra adults in my home, or to see the cost of running any gas & electricity appliances or see how much I have used last week. They've been in almost 2 years & went through a switch quite happily last year.

I have a water meter & pay just over £280. If I was on rates it would be just over £440. I'm happy to pay for what I use & keep that £160 in my pocket.

cw18

Floss said:

I worked for the former MANWEB before & after privatisation and we changed meters after 15 years as they need recalibration. Gas meters will be the same, particularly aa they are mechanical.

I have smart meters and to be honest, I quite like being able to immediately see the impact of having 2 extra adults in my home, or to see the cost of running any gas & electricity appliances or see how much I have used last week. They've been in almost 2 years & went through a switch quite happily last year.

If, as and when I have Smart meters foisted onto me, I have no intention whatsoever of running the little gadget inside the house as I'd have to pay for the electric to power it !!    I'd like to think I'm pretty savvy about what uses my energy, as I've now had three different companies question how low my useage is for the size of house over the last 10 years.

If I want to check track of how much I use in a week, I simply read my meters each Monday morning (for some reason it's very much a Monday activity for me when done weekly - but I normally just do it on the morning of 1st of month for submitting to my provider).

Floss said:

I have a water meter & pay just over £280. If I was on rates it would be just over £440. I'm happy to pay for what I use & keep that £160 in my pocket.

I've been on a water meter since Sept 2001 - in a rental until May 2002, and then since we moved here (new build, so came with a meter).   My bills come in at around £170/year, and I suspect they changed my meter because they thought it was faulty (it clearly wasn't as there's been no change to my rate of use ).    I've no idea what I'd pay if I were on water rates, but I know it would be a LOT more than that as I was paying around that figure at our last house when we moved out over 20 years ago (and it was a much smaller property / two council tax bands lower).  I also know that just over 78% of my bills are the standing charges, and there's absolutely no way I can reduce those

zafiro1984

Question:-
We have electric and oil - no gas here. I also have a large woodburner with its own oven in the kitchen which I tend to have going all day and most of the night. We mainly live in the kitchen and in the next room which is a study. Wood is free.

The oil central heating comes on no matter what time it is should the temperature drop  below a certain number. The house is zoned to different temperatures ie: upstairs during the day is lower than downstairs and vice versa at night time. 

DH is convinced I save no significant money at all by using the woodburner, I disagree.
However, I find looking after the woodburner takes a considerable amount of time and effort. We use trees that have either died or fallen over, they have to be uprooted, sawn, logged, dried, and stored for about 1yr before bringing them into the house and used. Today I measured just how much wood we use in a day by using a large Sainsbury bag - 8 bagfulls and they are heavy. Since September I have used the equivalent area of almost 2 garages full of logs and the cold weather is not over yet.

The question is 'Who is right?' I don't mind carrying on as we do if it saves money, if not I'd be quite happy with less work and a cleaner kitchen.

Floss

cw18 said:

If, as and when I have Smart meters foisted onto me, I have no intention whatsoever of running the little gadget inside the house as I'd have to pay for the electric to power it !!    I'd like to think I'm pretty savvy about what uses my energy, as I've now had three different companies question how low my useage is for the size of house over the last 10 years.

If I want to check track of how much I use in a week, I simply read my meters each Monday morning (for some reason it's very much a Monday activity for me when done weekly - but I normally just do it on the morning of 1st of month for submitting to my provider).

Monitors use approx. 1 kwh a year, so not a massive amount. Although maybe it is if your bills are low enough to raise concerns with your providers. 

fionaandphil

@zafiro1984 We are also on oil and I have similar conversations with DH.  I think at night when we are all sitting in front of the telly that it makes sense for the heating to be off and we can use the fire to burn wood, he thinks we would be better putting the heating on. Eight bags a day though does seem a lot but I suppose it will depend on the size of your woodburner.

I've never actually worked it out but I like the look and feel of the fire so we usually do that.  I will see what others suggest, thanks for asking

Effician

zafiro1984 said:

Question:-
We have electric and oil - no gas here. I also have a large woodburner with its own oven in the kitchen which I tend to have going all day and most of the night. We mainly live in the kitchen and in the next room which is a study. Wood is free.

The oil central heating comes on no matter what time it is should the temperature drop  below a certain number. The house is zoned to different temperatures ie: upstairs during the day is lower than downstairs and vice versa at night time. 

DH is convinced I save no significant money at all by using the woodburner, I disagree.
However, I find looking after the woodburner takes a considerable amount of time and effort. We use trees that have either died or fallen over, they have to be uprooted, sawn, logged, dried, and stored for about 1yr before bringing them into the house and used. Today I measured just how much wood we use in a day by using a large Sainsbury bag - 8 bagfulls and they are heavy. Since September I have used the equivalent area of almost 2 garages full of logs and the cold weather is not over yet.

The question is 'Who is right?' I don't mind carrying on as we do if it saves money, if not I'd be quite happy with less work and a cleaner kitchen.

My concern would be more to do with where all the heat from the stove is going.

You say 8 bags which i would guess is around 50kg of wood if not a little more per day,   at 4kw/h per 1kg of dry wood you are using approx 50kg x 4kw/h  = 200kw/h of heat energy each day which is equal to approx 20l of oil at energy value of 10kw/h per litre, 20lper day x a 30day month = 600l of oil per month.

Sounds like you either have a very inefficient stove or a very draughty house.

Primrose

The talk of rising fuel bills has reminded me of the hay box cooking.  My mum used this a few times during the war when I was a tiny child when gas supplies were cut off during bombing raids and I recall having to cook some kind of stew in one for my Girl Guide cookery badge many decades ago.

For anybody not knowing what they are they're a large box of some kind with a lid insulated  with hay, straw or old woollen rags which creates a "nest" into which you place a lidded casserole container of some kind which has had its contents bought to simmering point. The insulation of the hay or other materials into which it's packed is supposed to keep it warm for long enough to cook the contents over several hours.

The contents may not necessarily still be "piping hot"  by the time you're ready to eat them but the secret is to cut the meat & vegetables very small so they cook more quickly, and if possible to use a cast iron or metal container that's capable of being taken out and given a quick heating reboot on top of a hob ..  

This is a fairly primitive method of cooking but everybody should try it at least one just for the experience of learning how to survive in a possible fuel emergency.   A large sturdy Amazon box packed with old towels or cushions and using a metal saucepan with tight fitting lid would serve in an emergency and perhaps be  a good indoor camping  "adventure" to try with children? Savoury mince with vegetables is probably a good starter experiment. 

You could also cook your porridge overnight using this method.

Primrose

basketcase said:

@babs_103

About growing stuff:

1) Do you have windowledges?  If you do, you can use them to grow salads, veg, tomatoes, peppers (if wide enough) herbs etc. You can use old mushroom trays etc with compost to start off.

I'd recommend Vertical Veg https://www.verticalveg.org.uk/  as a good place to start looking for tips.

2) A couple of indoor things you can grow with no space other than under the sink are:

- sprouting seeds

A jam jar, some seeds, possibly an old pair of tights to make into a strainer for the top of the jar and you're off!

- mushrooms

Can be grown from kits under the sink or perhaps in an airing cupboard?

Just an idea. May not be any help...

Don,t forget pea shoots which are a delicious luxury as a garnish or in salads.  

Use dried peas from a supermarket, not the expensive garden centre packets.  Put a tiny layer of compost or damp kitchen paper in a shallow container of some kind (one inch depth is plenty) and spread peas over the surface. Keep the compost moist until the peas have reached the required height for snipping off. 

zafiro1984

Effician said:

My concern would be more to do with where all the heat from the stove is going.

You say 8 bags which i would guess is around 50kg of wood if not a little more per day,   at 4kw/h per 1kg of dry wood you are using approx 50kg x 4kw/h  = 200kw/h of heat energy each day which is equal to approx 20l of oil at energy value of 10kw/h per litre, 20lper day x a 30day month = 600l of oil per month.

Sounds like you either have a very inefficient stove or a very draughty house.

Gosh, I would never think of looking at it in that way. Certainly at the moment we are getting through almost 400l of oil a month but that's for the whole house not just the bit we live in.
The kitchen where we spend most of our time is vaulted and fairly large, over 40' long and 20' at its widest so the poor woodburner has to put a lot of effort into keeping the space warm. There is definitely a difference in temperature at each end of the room and after eating we tend to migrate to the woodburner end. Thank goodness the wood is free.

I think at the moment I shall continue as we are and keep badgering the DH to turn off the underfloor heating in the kitchen and maybe turn the heating in general down by 1degree. The rise in energy prices is quite disturbing.

Effician

zafiro1984 said:

Effician said:

My concern would be more to do with where all the heat from the stove is going.

You say 8 bags which i would guess is around 50kg of wood if not a little more per day,   at 4kw/h per 1kg of dry wood you are using approx 50kg x 4kw/h  = 200kw/h of heat energy each day which is equal to approx 20l of oil at energy value of 10kw/h per litre, 20lper day x a 30day month = 600l of oil per month.

Sounds like you either have a very inefficient stove or a very draughty house.

The kitchen where we spend most of our time is vaulted and fairly large, over 40' long and 20' at its widest so the poor

The vaulted ceiling will account for where most of the heat is going  the knack is to get it back down to where you can appreciate it & ultimately mean less fuel used, this can be achieved with ceiling fans which should also balance the heating along the room.