London congestion charge

izawa

Really? You want to charge people between hours of 1200 & 1800 on weekends + bank holidays? Not fair, not not fair.

What do you all think?

giraffe69

I think take the tube or the bus if you don't wish to pay.

born_again

Seems fair. 
What's wrong with charging at weekends etc. Car pollute just as much then as during the week. Should make it 24/7 👍

Goudy

born_again said:

Seems fair. 
What's wrong with charging at weekends etc. Car pollute just as much then as during the week. Should make it 24/7 👍

Because it's a a charge on congestion, not a charge on pollution.

It was introduced to cut traffic levels and easy congestion when they occur, ie peak times.

It was never stated it was ever introduced because of pollution as they had another scheme/charge in mind to cover that, the ULEZ.

Even TFL couldn't get away with two charges for the same thing.
One charge is congestion and the other for pollution and the one for pollution does run 24/7.

Now because neither generate enough money to fund Londons public transport (those pesky drivers all bought compliant cars), TFL are proposing yet another charge, the "London Boundary Charge".
Another £3.50 a day on top of the other two to drive into London.

So in future, motorists will be charged when they cross the boundray into London.
Charged if their cars pollute above a certain level.
And charged if the roads are busy.

born_again

Bet there is as much congestion at weekends & bank holidays at the times as there is during the week with all the tourists🤦‍♀️

Don't like it move away from London or use Public transport, which is far better than the rest of the UK. 

saker75

Make of it as you will but I used to drive in to the opera and park in Covent Garden NCP. It was less expensive than the cost of travel (Berkshire) by train for the two of us. The last train home was 23.10 which would mean leaving at curtain call or just before. We don’t do it now, even without COVID. Doesn’t help that my car is diesel and doesn’t meet ULEZ despite it being low tax. We take the train at the weekends unless we take my in laws who have mobility issues in which case nowadays we just don’t go.

Car_54

izawa said:

Not fair, not not fair.

What do you all think?

I think "not fair" might win an argument in the playground, but not a debate between adults.

Why is it unfair, and to whom?

Goudy

I live, work and drive in this area and there is far less traffic at the weekends and bank holidays within the original (inner ring road) CC zone.
For a start there is far less vans and lorries making deliveries, far less black and mini cabs, far less buses and hundreds of thousands less commuters in their cars that normally drive to work in the week.
I know for certain there is at least one less car commuter every weekend and bank holiday, me.

No one is saying I don't like it, far from it. I was just pointing out that the congestion charge and Ulez and two different charges.
They aren't the same, otherwise they wouldn't get away with charging twice for the same thing.

What I don't like is the economics that TFL use (along with the threats and likely costs they want to the rest of the country's tax payers to try and fund a public transport service in the capital).
 
Increasing charges for motorists does discourage use, no doubt about that. 
Trouble is, what happens when the income drops below the running costs of other schemes that rely on that income? We are actually finding that out now!

The ULEZ has been far too successful, not my words but those of TFL.
Far too many owners have swapped vehicles to cleaners ones and the expected income from the ULEZ has dropped £300 million in the first year and over £150 million in the next two years. These are TFL figures not mine.

This is one of the reasons why TFL still have such a massive funding hole, (along with the fact there's still the same number of tubes, trains and buses but far less commuters due to Covid) one that central government (you, me and everyone else) is now filling with a £500 million cheque every three months.

If the buses and tubes aren't economically sustainable on their own, trying to raise funding for them by repeatedly discouraging that funding stream or pricing out those that pay it is insane.
You can't put the price up or add new charging schemes as it discourages more and more and the more you encourage other forms of transport earns you less and less.

You can only guess at what is to come nationally. Central government is likely to lose out around £47 billion in fuel duty (over 5% in total) each year when the ban on petrol and diesel cars comes in, so pointless moving out of London as whatever is coming in it's place is likely to affect everyone and not just the motorists that are left.