Plumbers and Heating - Should I leave the TRV off one Radiator in the house?

Jeepers_Creepers

sho_me_da_money said:

Further to my last comment, I learned something interesting about the Smart TRVs I have installed.

When I set Bedroom 1s Smart TRV to 21 degrees, it sends and instruction to the boiler, turns it on and starts getting hot. All other radiators in the house stay cold and only Bedroom 1 gets hot until 21 degrees is hit.

This begs a fundamental question for me:

If the entire house i.e. all radiators are configured with a smart TRV, what the heck is a Thermostat unit needed for? I literally see no reason for it as you can set schedules time/temp settings per TRV and every TRV is capable of calling the boiler to turn on.

Any thoughts?

Yes. Smart TRVs on all rads would be the ultimate setup! It is like having numerous 'zones' - one for each rad! 

Bear in mind that all the other rads stayed cold just because these rooms were already warm enough, so their manual TRVs had the rads shut off. If the other rads had manual valves or TRVs that were 'open' and waiting for the boiler to be timed to come on, then they TOO would have heated up when that bedroom 'smart' TRV told the boiler to fire up. 

FreeBear

sho_me_da_money said: I have no idea about schedules and optimal temperatures for the house but I have configured the following temps and timings of the house.

06:00 - 09:30 - 20 degrees
09:30 - 17:00 - 19 degrees
17:00 - 22:00 - 20 degrees
22:00 - 06:00 - 18 degrees
.....rinse and repeat each day

Assuming the house is empty during the daytime, drop the temperature down to 16°C or 17°C, and maybe only go to 19°C in the morning. Night time, cut it back to 17°C and you shouldn't get much condensation on your windows. 16°C is a bit too low for my taste. Bedrooms, you can afford to drop the morning/evening temps down to 18°C unless you have smalls that are doing schoolwork & stuff.

Another_Level

Good to hear but has the system been balanced out and does the unknown branded lump of a vertical heat emitter actually now comfortably heat that room ?

So many people are trying to reduce their gas consumption, which is good 

sho_me_da_money

This is literally a pic of the current temps 2 mins ago.

The numbers with a clear white background (and not black) represent the detected temp by the thermostat or the TRV.

The numbers with a black background (and not white) represent the temps I have set in the schedule.

The temp outside is 6.3C

That means my house will rarely ever need to heat up as the temps seems to be firm around 19 degrees. Damn did I ever need radiators. LMAO.

aoleks

The thermostat should never be in the hallway, but in the room you spend most time in, on an internal wall.

sho_me_da_money

aoleks said:

The thermostat should never be in the hallway, but in the room you spend most time in, on an internal wall.

I've decided to place the thermostat in the living room and install the Netatmo Smart Radiator TRVs everywhere else. Why? Because the living room is one of those vertical Anthracite models that would look HORRIBLE with white Netatmo TRV.

All other Radiators in the house are white and look aesthically better with the smart TRV.

Worked out nicely.

System is NOT balanced yet until the final two rads are installed next week.

Curiously - how much do you think it costs (roughly) to

1. Replace a radiator from one model to another type (small to large) with adjusted pipework in the exact position that the previous rad was in?

2. Replace a radiator from one model to another type (small to large) with adjusted pipework in the different position (about a meter away on the same wall) to where the previous rad was in?

3. Replace a radiator from horizontal to vertical, with pipework manipulated to come from the wall/plaster as opposed to up from the floorboards and in a different position (about a meter or two away on the same wall) to where the previous rad was in?

I think I paid about £800 for the labour for all 5 Rads. I provided the radiators and TRVS. The guy did everything else and supplied the things like copper piping and sleeving etc.

Jeepers_Creepers

sho_me_da_money said:

This is literally a pic of the current temps 2 mins ago.

The numbers with a clear white background (and not black) represent the detected temp by the thermostat or the TRV.

The numbers with a black background (and not white) represent the temps I have set in the schedule.

The temp outside is 6.3C

That means my house will rarely ever need to heat up as the temps seems to be firm around 19 degrees. Damn did I ever need radiators. LMAO.

These temps are coming from somewhere. It ain't magicked out of thin air. It's either solar warming, or the result of the rads having been on, and the temp flows between rooms (only if each room's doors are firmly shut will these temps remain constantish in each room). Also, if the bedrooms are upstairs, that's where most of the downstairs heat will end up. 

But, smart TRVs seem to me to be the ultimate control system. 

Jeepers_Creepers

sho_me_da_money said:

Curiously - how much do you think it costs (roughly) to

1. Replace a radiator from one model to another type (small to large) with adjusted pipework in the exact position that the previous rad was in?

2. Replace a radiator from one model to another type (small to large) with adjusted pipework in the different position (about a meter away on the same wall) to where the previous rad was in?

3. Replace a radiator from horizontal to vertical, with pipework manipulated to come from the wall/plaster as opposed to up from the floorboards and in a different position (about a meter or two away on the same wall) to where the previous rad was in?

I think I paid about £800 for the labour for all 5 Rads. I provided the radiators and TRVS. The guy did everything else and supplied the things like copper piping and sleeving etc.

This is peasy bread'n'butter work for a plumber.
The likely most time-consuming part will be draining and refilling the system. 
How long would each rad then take to do? I don't know, but surely under an hour each? And there's actually little difference in the work required between these three jobs, although vertical columns rads are a pita to mount. 
The 'small' adjustment usually required to the pipework around a slightly-different rad change is every bit - often more  - as annoying as shifting it to a new place a metre away. So, unless the pipe runs need to be hidden under floors or in walls, then fitting a new rad a metre away is a doddle, and I'd prefer such a job than trying to 'tweak' the bends around a 2" adjustment.
How long did these 5 rads take? Surely a comfy <day? So, nice money. 
Seems a tad high based on what I think is involved, but not 'extortionate'. But I have nothing really to compare this with except DIY :-)

fezster

sho_me_da_money said:

aoleks said:

The thermostat should never be in the hallway, but in the room you spend most time in, on an internal wall.

I've decided to place the thermostat in the living room and install the Netatmo Smart Radiator TRVs everywhere else. Why? Because the living room is one of those vertical Anthracite models that would look HORRIBLE with white Netatmo TRV.

All other Radiators in the house are white and look aesthically better with the smart TRV.

Just remember that this radiator (without a TRV) will then always heat up regardless of which other radiator is calling for heat. This would probably mean this room will overheat.

Jeepers_Creepers

fezster said:

I've decided to place the thermostat in the living room and install the Netatmo Smart Radiator TRVs everywhere else. Why? Because the living room is one of those vertical Anthracite models that would look HORRIBLE with white Netatmo TRV.

All other Radiators in the house are white and look aesthically better with the smart TRV.

Just remember that this radiator (without a TRV) will then always heat up regardless of which other radiator is calling for heat. This would probably mean this room will overheat.

Ooooh - a good point!
Yes, when any of these other TRVs 'call for heat', the boiler will come on and the pump run. Hot CH water will go in to any other rad with an 'open' control valve. The room stat in the sitting room will have no bearing on this.
Hard to think of an easy way to sort this, but a zone valve fitted to the supply pipe to that rad would do it, controlled by a remote wall stat just for that room. Would access to this pipe be possible?