Section 75 – Credit Provider Expecting Retention of Faulty Goods

badger01

This question concerns a credit provider’s expectation of a consumer to retain the misrepresented goods that are under consideration in a Section 75 claim. Despite hours of online searching, I haven’t come across a single reference to this question.

I ordered building materials weighing several tonnes in August 2021. They turned out to be defective (i.e., misrepresented) and so I contacted the merchant for refund and removal. They would do neither. I had paid by credit card, so I contacted my card provider by telephone to start a claim under Section 75 of the CCA 1974 (the first time in 20 years of using credit that I have ever needed to submit such a claim). They advised me that they would have no interest in the actual building materials, so I arranged for them to be removed from my property to a salvage yard at my expense. I provided photographic evidence as part of the claim sent by post, but they cannot accept my video evidence for technical reasons. After 3 months they have declined it, stating that there was nothing they could do because neither myself nor the merchant are still in procession of the goods. This does not make sense to me for the following reasons:

1. I was unable to return the goods to the merchant because they would not engage in conversation nor provide a return address
2. I was unable to retain the goods myself due to lack of space and the ongoing costs of retaining them on the public highway
3. An advised time limit to making a Section 75 claim is 6 years, after which time it is highly unlikely that a consumer would still be in procession of goods
4. I provided significant photographic evidence, have video evidence that they will not (or cannot) accept, and I retained a small sample as evidence.

The merchant hasn’t been held to account at all and I feel that the information I have provided in good faith has been used against me to obstruct any progress and that they have unreasonable expectations of me as a consumer. I know I can go to the ombudsman next, but I am interested in whether anyone else has ever come across this scenario?

Thanks.

HeinzVarieties

You have the same rights with the credit card provider as you do with the retailer.  You also have the same responsibilities.

A retailer is entitled to receive the faulty goods back in return for a refund and the credit provider is too.

born_again

You really should not have disposed of them without the approval of the card company.

Did the salvage yard pay you for the goods?

While you have 6 years to make a S75 claim, You can not make it after disposing of the goods/evidence. In higher timeframe cases people do still have the goods, as the whole reason is something has gone wrong.

S75 very rarely holds a merchant to account. As it costs more in legal costs for the bank than they would ever recover.

If the goods were faulty, then a chargeback would have been a better option.

Nebulous2

You can take both the credit card company and the merchant to court. I did exactly that some years ago and that got their attention very quickly.  They did want the oven back however.... 

Rejecting Oven — MoneySavingExpert Forum

pramsay13

You can't really expect to be refunded for the goods, and just scrap them. 
They either belong to the original company or the bank if they reimburse you, but you've just taken the decision to get rid of them. 

badger01

born_again said:

You really should not have disposed of them without the approval of the card company.

Did the salvage yard pay you for the goods?

While you have 6 years to make a S75 claim, You can not make it after disposing of the goods/evidence. In higher timeframe cases people do still have the goods, as the whole reason is something has gone wrong.

S75 very rarely holds a merchant to account. As it costs more in legal costs for the bank than they would ever recover.

If the goods were faulty, then a chargeback would have been a better option.

pramsay13 said:

You can't really expect to be refunded for the goods, and just scrap them. 
They either belong to the original company or the bank if they reimburse you, but you've just taken the decision to get rid of them. 

 
Thank you for your thoughts.

Given the nature of the goods, I had no choice but to have them removed. I did not do this without first asking the card provider. During my initial call with them, they stated that they would not be concerned with the actual goods because:

• a claim only concerns the financial transaction that has taken place
• there is nothing practical that they could do with them

They changed their position on this upon the claim becoming formalised, which I obviously did not expect them to do. I did not receive payment for the goods, although the card provider is claiming that the salvage yard is still waiting to pay me (they went as far as locating the goods, but still decided that they could not do anything).

Even if I had taken the Chargeback route instead, what I'm struggling to understand is what I was expected to do with the 4 tonnes of goods given that the merchant would not take them back (the costs to move them were over £300), I had no space for them and they could not be kept on the public highway. Given this impossible position that I was in, this is why I asked the question to the card provider up-front, to avoid this exact kind of stalemate.

badger01

HeinzVarieties said:

You have the same rights with the credit card provider as you do with the retailer.  You also have the same responsibilities.

A retailer is entitled to receive the faulty goods back in return for a refund and the credit provider is too.

I did not have the goods removed without first asking the card provider. During my initial call with them, they stated that they would not be concerned with the actual goods because:

• a claim only concerns the financial transaction that has taken place
• there is nothing practical that they could do with them

...they then changed their minds. Given this information, I thought I was being responsible - I wouldn't want to be anything otherwise.

HeinzVarieties

badger01 said:

HeinzVarieties said:

You have the same rights with the credit card provider as you do with the retailer.  You also have the same responsibilities.

A retailer is entitled to receive the faulty goods back in return for a refund and the credit provider is too.

I did not have the goods removed without first asking the card provider. During my initial call with them, they stated that they would not be concerned with the actual goods because:

• a claim only concerns the financial transaction that has taken place
• there is nothing practical that they could do with them

...they then changed their minds. Given this information, I thought I was being responsible - I wouldn't want to be anything otherwise.

It's very unlikely any of this was recorded so it's your word against theirs.

I suspect they'll win the FOS complaint as it sounds like you just disposed of the goods as they were impractical to retain, when you could have paid costs to retain it and recovered those costs under S75.

badger01

Nebulous2 said:

You can take both the credit card company and the merchant to court. I did exactly that some years ago and that got their attention very quickly.  They did want the oven back however.... 

Rejecting Oven — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Thanks for this. I notice that a few months passed by in 2016 between delivery and resolution. What did you do with the faulty oven during this period and when did you finally get rid of it? I assume Curry's nor Nationwide ever asked for it back?

Thanks.

HeinzVarieties

badger01 said:

Nebulous2 said:

You can take both the credit card company and the merchant to court. I did exactly that some years ago and that got their attention very quickly.  They did want the oven back however.... 

Rejecting Oven — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Thanks for this. I notice that a few months passed by in 2016 between delivery and resolution. What did you do with the faulty oven during this period and when did you finally get rid of it? I assume Curry's nor Nationwide ever asked for it back?

Thanks.

They said the card provider asked for it back.

You could have claimed consequential losses for having the items stored, but you gave them away so you have no claim.

I'm not without sympathy. It's potentially a hard decision to make with paying more money to store goods vs the certainty of getting anything back, but the law is fairly clear in this regard, the retailer (and by extension the card provider) is entitled to receive the goods back.  Cake and eating it etc.

born_again

badger01 said:

 
Thank you for your thoughts.

Given the nature of the goods, I had no choice but to have them removed. I did not do this without first asking the card provider. During my initial call with them, they stated that they would not be concerned with the actual goods because:

• a claim only concerns the financial transaction that has taken place
• there is nothing practical that they could do with them

They changed their position on this upon the claim becoming formalised, which I obviously did not expect them to do. I did not receive payment for the goods, although the card provider is claiming that the salvage yard is still waiting to pay me (they went as far as locating the goods, but still decided that they could not do anything).

Even if I had taken the Chargeback route instead, what I'm struggling to understand is what I was expected to do with the 4 tonnes of goods given that the merchant would not take them back (the costs to move them were over £300), I had no space for them and they could not be kept on the public highway. Given this impossible position that I was in, this is why I asked the question to the card provider up-front, to avoid this exact kind of stalemate.

While I understand the issues in storing the goods. Unless the card provider explicitly said you can dispose of them & "they would not be concerned with the actual goods" does not cover that, as they may have been trying to get the merchant to pick them up. While it is not normal practise on S75 it does happen sometimes to push a retailer. It will be done to cut any loses.
If a customer asks us, what to do with any goods. They are always advised to keep them, as retailer still has the right to them if funds are claimed back. This can be for up to 6 years... Unless with a S75 the bank pays out and they will then say you can dispose of them.

With a chargeback there is the option to continue if the retailer will not pick faulty goods up. TBH faulty is not the same as "misrepresented" So had that route been taken the retailer would have lost the funds for the goods, which is often enough for them to get off their backsides & pick the goods up. If in this case with the goods being disposed off. The retailer would have the right to go to court for their money back.

Good luck with your FOS claim 👍