Tip/gift to builder

tristanm81

Hi, we’ve been having some work done in our flat by a sole trader builder for the past week. He’s really friendly and hardworking. Yesterday some thieves broke into his van outside our building and made off with about £2000 worth of his tools. We saw it all unfold from our window as he ran down the stairs to try and catch them. He was absolutely gutted. The whole job was quoted at £1600, and now he’s lost out more than that. 

Anyway long story short, we really feel we want to help him out but aren’t sure how best to do it. Thinking of either overpaying on the job by £400. Or maybe giving him some cash in an envelope as a thank you / tip. Or maybe a screwfix gift card as a thank you. 

We don’t want to offend him or make it seem like charity. We just feel awful about what’s happened to him. Also he’s from Egypt so, not sure whether culturally it would be taken in the right spirit. What would you do?

Ajmason42

I think that’s very kind of you personally I would do the Screwfix card and tell him it’s a thank you for his hard work and working neatly and tidy (assuming he has)

Bendy_House

Wow! What a heart-warming story to hear! Tristan, you are a beacon in these dark times - the two Cs. (And I don't mean the two versions of Covid...).

No idea how this fellow's culture might make him react, but in the UK we (ideally) 'tip' when it's deserved; when someone has truly performed in a way that has made your life that much better. So I'd present it in that manner - you appreciate his commitment and how hard he's worked, perhaps mentioning (if it's true) that this hasn't always been your experience, so showing your gratitude like this will make you happy. Add that you'll also be happy to recommend him to other folk.

Having said that... he really should have insurance! A £400 tip on a £1600 job is very generous, and I don't want to spoil that gesture. Did you get any other quotes? Was it higher - around the £2k mark? If so, then it's 'fair' as well as 'kind'.

TELLIT01

Screwfix card is the way to go.  Lovely thought on your behalf as well.

tristanm81

Thanks for the views. I think his price was very reasonable because it’s been about six days work, and including materials it feels really fair. He’s done work for us before at a good price and has really helped us out. I guess my only worry about the gift card is that if he turns it down I’ll be stuck with a lot to spend at screwfix 

Perhaps I’m slightly motivated because it affects his ability to do his job. Whereas since I just do a desk job, any theft from me would just be an annoyance but I can carry on working. It was just so jarring to see it happening. We called the police straight away but they can’t really do much. 

Section62

tristanm81 said:

Yesterday some thieves broke into his van outside our building and made off with about £2000 worth of his tools. We saw it all unfold from our window as he ran down the stairs to try and catch them. He was absolutely gutted. The whole job was quoted at £1600, and now he’s lost out more than that. 

Anyway long story short, we really feel we want to help him out but aren’t sure how best to do it. Thinking of either overpaying on the job by £400. Or maybe giving him some cash in an envelope as a thank you / tip. Or maybe a screwfix gift card as a thank you. 

Call me cynical.... but £2k of tools is a lot to leave parked in a van in a (presumably*) high crime rate area.

It's also incredibly unfortunate that the thieves were aware the van was worth breaking into... unless* this is a high crime-rate area and that sort of thing happens all the time.

Even so, breaking into a builder's van parked outside a customer's property during the day (was it daylight?) is a very risky thing to do... unless* this is a norm in the local area.

And although tools can cost a lot of money, being able to grab £2k's worth of tools from a locked vehicle and run/drive off with them in the time it took the builder to get outside is.... fortunate for the thieves/very unfortunate for the builder.

Also, as Bendy notes, you'd expect a trader to have insurance for this kind of event, and unless you were to give him the full £2k he's still going to need to make a claim/pay the excess/have a claim history.

I guess what I'm saying is are you sure this is what it appears to be?

Also, if he does make a (full) claim on his insurance, if he doesn't inform the insurer about your 'tip' it might well be treated as a case of fraud - which a cash payment or gift card might make more likely, since either of those is more likely to need to be kept 'off the books'.

On the assumption the situation with the theft is 100% genuine, your generousity could still land him in serious trouble if he doesn't handle it correctly, and if he does handle it correctly, you'll effectively just be subsidising the insurance company's shareholders by £400.

It needs some very careful hard-headed thought.

melb

i would give cash rather than a Screwfix card as he may not use Screwfix for his tools.  Would your own home insurance cover it as it is theft?

Section62

melb said:

Would your own home insurance cover it as it is theft?

Very unlikely, as the items stolen weren't the OP's and were in someone else's van.

The OP's home insurance is only likely to be a relavant factor if they have LP and the builder tries to sue the OP for failing to tell him the area had a particular crime problem (or something similar), which isn't likely to be a viable claim in any event.

Furthermore, the claim excess and impact on future premiums is likely to end up costing the OP more than the £400 they are talking about. [although see my comment above about the risk/problems potentially involved in making such a payment]

Doozergirl

Section62 said:

tristanm81 said:

Yesterday some thieves broke into his van outside our building and made off with about £2000 worth of his tools. We saw it all unfold from our window as he ran down the stairs to try and catch them. He was absolutely gutted. The whole job was quoted at £1600, and now he’s lost out more than that. 

Anyway long story short, we really feel we want to help him out but aren’t sure how best to do it. Thinking of either overpaying on the job by £400. Or maybe giving him some cash in an envelope as a thank you / tip. Or maybe a screwfix gift card as a thank you. 

Call me cynical.... but £2k of tools is a lot to leave parked in a van in a (presumably*) high crime rate area.

It's also incredibly unfortunate that the thieves were aware the van was worth breaking into... unless* this is a high crime-rate area and that sort of thing happens all the time.

Even so, breaking into a builder's van parked outside a customer's property during the day (was it daylight?) is a very risky thing to do... unless* this is a norm in the local area.

And although tools can cost a lot of money, being able to grab £2k's worth of tools from a locked vehicle and run/drive off with them in the time it took the builder to get outside is.... fortunate for the thieves/very unfortunate for the builder.

Also, as Bendy notes, you'd expect a trader to have insurance for this kind of event, and unless you were to give him the full £2k he's still going to need to make a claim/pay the excess/have a claim history.

I guess what I'm saying is are you sure this is what it appears to be?

Also, if he does make a (full) claim on his insurance, if he doesn't inform the insurer about your 'tip' it might well be treated as a case of fraud - which a cash payment or gift card might make more likely, since either of those is more likely to need to be kept 'off the books'.

On the assumption the situation with the theft is 100% genuine, your generousity could still land him in serious trouble if he doesn't handle it correctly, and if he does handle it correctly, you'll effectively just be subsidising the insurance company's shareholders by £400.

It needs some very careful hard-headed thought.

I'm calling you cynical! 

The OP watched it happen.  The builder hasn't asked the OP for anything at all, so what gain is there for him?   There will be excesses on insurance even if he has covered himself for tools - there is no requirement to - and it takes time.  The builder will lose more than £400 in lost labour before anyone pays anything out, if they pay out.  

OP, that is such a lovely thing for you to do.    You seem to know the man and if you can afford to do it then: 

a) I suspect he will pay you back in kindness going forward if you feel that he has already been good to you.  
b) you'll feel really good for helping someone. 

Merry Christmas.  What a special person you are 🎄 

Another_Level

New Tools were worth £2k whilst in the showroom,yes.  once used and not maintained their cost plummets to car boot sales costs.

As already mentioned plenty of tool sales shops open early am till late pm. 

Tradespersons tools are stolen every hour in every day, trades people can insure their tools but not worth it for baseline tools which are designed to last unserviced for a few years.

Maybe just sent an xmas card to to your tradesperson, stating youl recommended them to others ongoing.


tristanm81, your neighbours may have cctv or they could be involved in the heist. Its your call 

Been there and won !

Section62

Doozergirl said:

I'm calling you cynical! 

The OP watched it happen.  The builder hasn't asked the OP for anything at all, so what gain is there for him?   There will be excesses on insurance even if he has covered himself for tools - there is no requirement to - and it takes time.  The builder will lose more than £400 in lost labour before anyone pays anything out, if they pay out.  

Thanks.

In a hypothetical case, the builder won't have lost anything if his mates had given him the tools back before the end of the day....

...it would be an unusual way to con a kind-hearted person out of some money.... but these days the ingenuity of fraudsters and scammers works at a different level to what it did in the past.  The OP watched something happen, but is it what it seemed?

I'm not saying the OP is being conned, just that they need to set the emotion/trauma to one side for a moment and ask themselves if everything feels 'right'.

This is standard advice from the banks etc when anyone is about to hand over a significant amount of money (especially to strangers) on the basis of a hard-luck story.

The kindest people are the easiest victims of fraudsters.