Someone parked in my space. I got a penalty.

[Deleted User]

I am a leaseholder in a block of flats with an allocated parking space. My space has recently been moved by the management company to what used to be a visitor space (due to my space being used for construction work).

I keep coming home to non-residents parked in my space (2-3 times a week). I asked what I should do in these circumstances - management company just said they will ask the parking firm to 'increase patrols'.

When this happened again, I chose to park in a neighbors space which is often empty (knowing the will call by if they need it) . I received a penalty of £100 (reduced to 65 if within 28 days). 

I emailed the company stating all this + photos of the car in my space. I also asked again for advice in where to park when this happens. They told me to go through appeals process. No answer to my question.

My questions
1) do I go through the appeals process, knowing I will probably lose? (Apparently management company has an agreement with parking firm that they will remove up to 50 penalties a year for genuine residents facing such issues) 
2) what do I do if someone is parked in my space in the future.
3) should I let them take me to court over this? What is the worst case scenario.
4) if I did use there appeals process (with possibility they could remove the penalty), would that harm my case in court in any way?

Thank you in advance.

D_P_Dance

It is not a penalty, please read the newbies

If your neihbour has no objection the PPC are very likely to struggle.  He/she is likely to have primacy of contract.

Read  some of these and complain to your MP.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

Fruitcake

What is the name o the PPC please?

It is not a penalty.

Complain to the MA. They are responsible for the actions and inactions of the PPC. 

What does your lease/AST/property rental agreement say about parking, parking companies, PCNs, paying PCNs and court? What it doesn't say is just as important.
Does it mention a right to quiet enjoyment?

If you have a lease, ask the MA when (not if) a ballot of all landlords and residents was carried out in accordance with Part IV, Section 37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, and what was the result. Without the prescribed number of votes in favour without exceeding the maximum number of votes against, it is unlawful to vary a lease. An act of parliament is the law.

The PPC is supposed to keep your demised space clear. They have failed to do this. This means the MA has probably failed to comply with the Ts and Cs of your lease etcetera. Get other people involved if they are having the same problem.

Yes you should appeal if the charge isn't cancelled using the template in blue text from the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. At this stage, send it unaltered from The Keeper. This will not affect anything if it goes to court. Some judges look favourably on motorists who have tried to resolve the issue at the earliest opportunity.

Complain to your MP and ask them to forward it to Michael Gove MP and Neil O'Brien MP at the department for levelling up. They are responsible for producing the new mandatory parking code of practice that is due to come into force next year. They need to know about the problems these unscrupulous parking companies are causing to genuine residents.

Get written permission from the neighbour that it is alright for you to temporarily park in their space if/when the PPC has failed to keep yours clear.

Move home. I am serious. Nobody should live in a property that is infested by an unregulated parking company.

Unfortunately there is little you can do about cars in your space except leaving a snottogramme on the windscreen and reporting it to the MA each time it happens, reminding them that this breaches your right to quiet enjoyment, and stress that the PPC has failed to keep your demised space clear.

Personally I would get my big car and a tow rope, and drag the offending car out the way, but not everyone is up for that. Blocking it in is actually unlawful unless it can be done by a gate or barrier that was already in place at the time.

If you pay to rent the space, then you are the landholder and I believe you can actually apply to the DVLA to obtain the keeper's details. You could then send them a bill for parking in your demised space.

If the space is up against a physical barrier such as a wall, you could install a lockable, collapsible parking bollard. If this is possible, I wouldn't ask for permission from the MA, but point out their failings if they complain.

[Deleted User]

Yha k you for your Fruitcake said:

What is the name o the PPC please?

It is not a penalty.

Complain to the MA. They are responsible for the actions and inactions of the PPC. 

What does your lease/AST/property rental agreement say about parking, parking companies, PCNs, paying PCNs and court? What it doesn't say is just as important.
Does it mention a right to quiet enjoyment?

If you have a lease, ask the MA when (not if) a ballot of all landlords and residents was carried out in accordance with Part IV, Section 37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, and what was the result. Without the prescribed number of votes in favour without exceeding the maximum number of votes against, it is unlawful to vary a lease. An act of parliament is the law.

The PPC is supposed to keep your demised space clear. They have failed to do this. This means the MA has probably failed to comply with the Ts and Cs of your lease etcetera. Get other people involved if they are having the same problem.

Yes you should appeal if the charge isn't cancelled using the template in blue text from the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. At this stage, send it unaltered from The Keeper. This will not affect anything if it goes to court. Some judges look favourably on motorists who have tried to resolve the issue at the earliest opportunity.

Complain to your MP and ask them to forward it to Michael Gove MP and Neil O'Brien MP at the department for levelling up. They are responsible for producing the new mandatory parking code of practice that is due to come into force next year. They need to know about the problems these unscrupulous parking companies are causing to genuine residents.

Get written permission from the neighbour that it is alright for you to temporarily park in their space if/when the PPC has failed to keep yours clear.

Move home. I am serious. Nobody should live in a property that is infested by an unregulated parking company.

Unfortunately there is little you can do about cars in your space except leaving a snottogramme on the windscreen and reporting it to the MA each time it happens, reminding them that this breaches your right to quiet enjoyment, and stress that the PPC has failed to keep your demised space clear.

Personally I would get my big car and a tow rope, and drag the offending car out the way, but not everyone is up for that. Blocking it in is actually unlawful unless it can be done by a gate or barrier that was already in place at the time.

If you pay to rent the space, then you are the landholder and I believe you can actually apply to the DVLA to obtain the keeper's details. You could then send them a bill for parking in your demised space.

If the space is up against a physical barrier such as a wall, you could install a lockable, collapsible parking bollard. If this is possible, I wouldn't ask for permission from the MA, but point out their failings if they complain.

Thank you for your helpful responses.
I cant help but feel I would be taking contradictory actions. 1) claiming the ppc has no right to enforce as not in the lease but 2) claiming they have failed to keep my space free. Surely I need to choose one or the other?

If I can get proof in writing from my neighbor and my request to theanagement company on what I can do in this situation, I'm hoping that will be enough. I will then appeal and wait for court.

[Deleted User]

Parking company is pandpmanagent.com 

Fruitcake

jam89 said:

Parking company is pandpmanagent.com 

That is a website. Please tell us the full name of the PPC as it appears on the PCN.

Is it perhaps Parking and Property Management Limited, an IPC member?

Fruitcake

jam89 said:

Yha k you for your Fruitcake said:

What is the name o the PPC please?

It is not a penalty.

Complain to the MA. They are responsible for the actions and inactions of the PPC. 

What does your lease/AST/property rental agreement say about parking, parking companies, PCNs, paying PCNs and court? What it doesn't say is just as important.
Does it mention a right to quiet enjoyment?

If you have a lease, ask the MA when (not if) a ballot of all landlords and residents was carried out in accordance with Part IV, Section 37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, and what was the result. Without the prescribed number of votes in favour without exceeding the maximum number of votes against, it is unlawful to vary a lease. An act of parliament is the law.

The PPC is supposed to keep your demised space clear. They have failed to do this. This means the MA has probably failed to comply with the Ts and Cs of your lease etcetera. Get other people involved if they are having the same problem.

Yes you should appeal if the charge isn't cancelled using the template in blue text from the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. At this stage, send it unaltered from The Keeper. This will not affect anything if it goes to court. Some judges look favourably on motorists who have tried to resolve the issue at the earliest opportunity.

Complain to your MP and ask them to forward it to Michael Gove MP and Neil O'Brien MP at the department for levelling up. They are responsible for producing the new mandatory parking code of practice that is due to come into force next year. They need to know about the problems these unscrupulous parking companies are causing to genuine residents.

Get written permission from the neighbour that it is alright for you to temporarily park in their space if/when the PPC has failed to keep yours clear.

Move home. I am serious. Nobody should live in a property that is infested by an unregulated parking company.

Unfortunately there is little you can do about cars in your space except leaving a snottogramme on the windscreen and reporting it to the MA each time it happens, reminding them that this breaches your right to quiet enjoyment, and stress that the PPC has failed to keep your demised space clear.

Personally I would get my big car and a tow rope, and drag the offending car out the way, but not everyone is up for that. Blocking it in is actually unlawful unless it can be done by a gate or barrier that was already in place at the time.

If you pay to rent the space, then you are the landholder and I believe you can actually apply to the DVLA to obtain the keeper's details. You could then send them a bill for parking in your demised space.

If the space is up against a physical barrier such as a wall, you could install a lockable, collapsible parking bollard. If this is possible, I wouldn't ask for permission from the MA, but point out their failings if they complain.

Thank you for your helpful responses.
I cant help but feel I would be taking contradictory actions. 1) claiming the ppc has no right to enforce as not in the lease but 2) claiming they have failed to keep my space free. Surely I need to choose one or the other?

If I can get proof in writing from my neighbor and my request to theanagement company on what I can do in this situation, I'm hoping that will be enough. I will then appeal and wait for court.

Conversely, the MA and PPC can't have it both ways. They are supposed to manage the site and keep residents' parking spaces clear, not penalise residents because the MA and PPC have failed to do their job.

Your lease/AST will have primacy of contract, so you need to determine what your rights are according to that, then you will have specific points to complain about.

If it gets to court, it is normal to have something like,

Point 1 Primacy of contract. The PPC had no right to issue me with a ticket.
Point 2 In the alternative, the PPC failed to comply with their contract and keep my space clear for my exclusive use, therefore the parking contract terms were void for impossibility.

Half_way

Two issues at play here:

Issue 1: ou parked in someone else space with their permission, that person like you will have over riding rights over the parking company, and as they gave permission the parking company had no rights to trespass onto their land and issue your vehicle with a ticket.

Issue 2: someone parked in your space - this combined with issue 1 clearly shows that the only thing PPCs are good for is making money for themselves , car park management and keeping spaces clear is not what a PPC is about.

 If the PPC was keeping the car park clear then the PPC wouldn't make any money, its in the PPCs best interest for people to park in  other peoples spaces and / or have other people park there so they can issue more tickets and make more money - which is a clear conflict of interest.

If parking is an issue at a residential site then the only real way to control who has access to where is by physical means such as lockable bollards, a gate and so on .

And as in previous posts if the car was parked with the land owners ( space owners) permission then as soon as the parking company is told that they should drop the case all together wihtout faffing about with so called appeals

[Deleted User]

Fruitcake said:

jam89 said:

Parking company is pandpmanagent.com 

That is a website. Please tell us the full name of the PPC as it appears on the PCN.

Is it perhaps Parking and Property Management Limited, an IPC member?

Correct. It is Parking and Property Management Ltd. 

[Deleted User]

Thanks for your help. I don't think they will drop the case. I got a charge once for forgetting the permit in my own space and they still refused to cancel it.

D_P_Dance

In the final analysis, it is what a judge says that matters and in most private car parks, the PPC is very likely to be there unlawfully.