Landowner Responsibility / Parking Company

Tron103

This is super helpful - thank you.

Does anyone know if my rights as a tenant are consistent with the rights of an owner? My understanding is yes given the terms of the lease and from what I’ve read but want to check if there’s anything I’m missing?

Fruitcake

Your rights as a tenant will be defined by the Landlord and Tenant Act, and by your tenancy agreement. They may differ to that of a (land?)owner.

You need to look at both to determine exactly what your rights are. There may also be a head lease for the whole property/site/complex as well as a lease or tenancy agreement specific to you and your flat/apartment/home, so you get a copy of that as well as your property rental agreement.

Tron103

Hi, 

Does anyone have a Section 10 template that I could use to write to UKCPM to state that they must cease using my data?

Thanks!

KeithP

Tron103 said:

Hi, 

Does anyone have a Section 10 template that I could use to write to UKCPM to state that they must cease using my data?

Thanks!

Are you talking about Section 10 of the Criminal Justice Act 1967?

Or maybe Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 2018?

Not something often talked about here.

Tron103

Sorry - should have been clearer. I'm looking for Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 2018. 

As an update (if anyone is curious), my appeal was rejected by UKCPM as expected. I got a copy of the Lease which does not outline any clause requiring a permit or a charge for using the space. It does highlight that the Landlord can impose reasonable regulations to parking but I believe it's easy to argue that this is not reasonable. 

I reached out to the Management Company to try and ask them to remove the PCNs. They told me that they could not do this and that they could only support an appeal if I could prove that a permit was displayed. In their words 'these are legally issued fines and your legal position is that you must pay them'. *rolls eyes*. I have asked them for multiple documents that they have ignored. 

I'm not escalating my complaint to the Landowner and the CEO of the Property Management Company on the basis of Primacy of Contract + other terms (thanks Parking Prankster) to see if they will step in. Currently receiving messages from Debt Collectors at the same time. 

It's a pain in the backside. 

Coupon-mad

I reached out to the Management Company to try and ask them to remove the PCNs. They told me that they could not do this and that they could only support an appeal if I could prove that a permit was displayed. In their words 'these are legally issued fines and your legal position is that you must pay them'. 

*rolls eyes*.

Haha!

So the MA clerk is qualified to advise you on your 'legal position' are they?  I would be complaining about that. 

Clearly they have no idea as to the status of an ex-clamper's parking charge either, given they think they are fines!

Tron103

I know! 

I went back very bluntly to the individual who has now stopped responding to me at all. I have however just sent her a copy of my letter that will be sent to the Landowner and to the Managing Director of the MC so lets see. I don't hold out much hope but will keep going. 

holderness

The devil as always is in the detail. What does it say on the sign? If it says 'Authorised Vehicles Only' as ours does, that is open to fair interpretation. The MA should have a written contract with terms and exclusions (otherwise how could anyone move in or have anything delivered for example, the milkman would get a ticket every morning) The contract should also expressly give the PPC the right to sue in thier own name otherwise its worthless. In my experience MAs are dismissive of tenants but less so of leaseholders who in effect employ them, so you may be better served going through your landlord if possible. 

Tron103

Hi!

I'm really hoping that someone with some wisdom can help me with next steps following on from the above. 

I've read the Newbies forum in detail and have also read ParkingPrankster / this thread in detail all which have been super helpful in clarifying things for me but I'm getting nowhere with the Property Management Company or the Landowner and would be forever grateful if anyone can help me with next steps. To summarise: 

• We have three outstanding fines totally £510 (or £480 depending on which letter I believe) for parking in an allocated space of a flat where we were a tenant that were issued between October 19th and October 31st 2021 whilst waiting for UKCPM to issue a permit. We are currently receiving letters from Debt Collectors.
• There is nothing in the lease or in our tenancy that states a permit must be displayed. We were informed of a need for a permit by our Lettings Agent the day we moved in. We were not given a link to pay for a permit until October 19th (which we did) and did not receive a physical permit until November 4th. We were given a temporary 'code' to display during this time but unfortunately didn't swap this between cars so it wasn't displayed when we received fines. 
• I appealed all three fines to UKCPM which was declined due to 'no permit being displayed'. I have not appealed to IAS given advice read.
• I asked the Property Management Company to step in. They declined as they believed the fines are "legally issued" due to no permit being displayed and therefore "my legal position is that I need to pay". 
• I subsequently sent a letter to the Managing Director of the MC and the Landowner highlighting primacy of contract given the lease / the fact that £510 charge for parking in a space that is owned by the property is not fair or reasonable / breach of my data rights given UKCPM has shared my data with debt collectors. This was quite a formal letter highlighting case law and quoting the lease which I can share if it helps

I have now had a response from the MC on behalf of the Landowner titled 'final response' that says; 

Your EA having previously let the property were aware of the process around obtaining permits from UKCPM who manage the parking at the development. In addition we confirmed on the 14th October that they should contact UKCPM via their online portal https://www.uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk/permit-order/stage1.php , registering the car, applying for a permit at a cost of £5 and in return being given a code to place on the dashboard which would confirm that you were entitled to park in this parking space. There is no phone number to call which would allow you to do this and this was made abundantly clear to the EA that this needed to be done via their portal.

The introduction of the parking scheme was commenced at the request of the Freeholder and with knowledge of all Leaseholders back in 2019, in fact the Leaseholder of the Flat you rented contacted your EA to remind them that a parking permit was needed, our staff member then confirmed the process as above which included registering your car online which was not done until the 19th October when you paid the £5 for the permit, at this time you were provided with a code to display in your car until your permit arrived and it appears from the photographs attached to the penalty notices that you did not display the code as advised.

On speaking to UKCPM you have appealed only one of these tickets which was rejected, you have not referred the matter to the independent arbitrator https://www.theias.org/ which should be the next stage in the process nor have you raised a complaint against UKCPM complaints@uk-cpm.com which will allow them to review the case in its entirety.

 Having considered all of the above I am afraid it is my belief that these tickets were issued correctly as you failed to follow the process as described when parking.

If you are dissatisfied with my response, you may refer this matter to the property ombudsman who will adjudicate on our involvement in this matter.

Can anyone advise how or if I should respond? They haven't answered any of my points about the lease or responded to a request for a copy of the contract agreed with UKCPM? I might be proven wrong if I go to court but I can't comprehend how I can be charged £510 for parking in a space that is linked to the property I'm renting!? 

Huge huge thanks in advance if anyone can help. 

Coupon-mad

Don't respond to that.  It's not from UKCPM and is from a clueless person who thinks they can issue PENALTY charges.

We have three outstanding fines totally £510 (or £480 depending on which letter I believe) for parking in an allocated space of a flat where we were a tenant that were issued between October 19th and October 31st 2021 whilst waiting for UKCPM to issue a permit. 

You will get a claim and can defend on primacy of contract and unclear signage and terms about this 'code' when it would have been easy for the system to whitelist cars as soon as residents move in, with a system that doesn't place the burden on the new tenant, whilst not making it clear.

You are far from alone; this appears to be their usual (IMHO and according to MPs too) 'scam' model they operate.  A reasonable person might conclude that this is a 'pitfall of trap' designed to generate PCNs because they make no money at all from the contract (they are not paid)

Read the first half dozen pages of UKCPM's appalling Trust Pilot reviews about them making it hard and confusing to get permits:

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk

Defendable scam, IMHO.  Judges are not stupid.