Received a PCN from Euro Car Park that no longer has a store but still owns car park

Fruitcake

Always complain to your MP. It's the reason why a new parking bill was passed by the government, and why a new mandatory parking code of conduct is due to be introduced next year.

You could check with the local planning department to see what the original maximum permitted parking time was stipulated when the original planning permission was granted for the site. 
It is quite common for an unregulated parking company to arbitrarily reduce this so they can generate more revenue.
You could also ask if planning permission was ever granted for ANPR cameras, and if advertising consent was ever granted for signs. Not having the latter is a breach of paragraph 12 of the PoFA 2012 Schedule 4, and more importantly it is a criminal offence, although only the council can pursue it.
Sadly most don't, but there are a couple that do.

If the PPC has failed on any of the above points then that should go in the landowner complaint, the initial appeal, a complain to the BPA, and the complaint to your MP, and the local planning department.

Local and national press might be interested. Comments can also be left on the landowner's social media sites.

D_P_Dance

It is a multi million pound scam, hardly trivial.  

KitKatKen

Hello everyone,

I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas and your new year is going well.

Once again, thank you all for your advice and comments. 

Fruitcake said:

Always complain to your MP. It's the reason why a new parking bill was passed by the government, and why a new mandatory parking code of conduct is due to be introduced next year.

As advised I wrote to my MP at the beginning of January, however, I am still awaiting a reply. 

Fruitcake said:

You could check with the local planning department to see what the original maximum permitted parking time was stipulated when the original planning permission was granted for the site. 
It is quite common for an unregulated parking company to arbitrarily reduce this so they can generate more revenue.

You are absolutely right. Morrisons opened in June 2014, Initially, they offered around 3 hours of free parking, although the signage had a blank spot where the time should have been and only speaking to Morrisons staff confirmed the 3-hour limit. However, around May 2015, I noticed the signage had been updated with a new reduced 2-hour limit. Although I have not checked with my local planning department what permission they had as I have left it too late.

Fruitcake said:

You could also ask if planning permission was ever granted for ANPR cameras, and if advertising consent was ever granted for signs. Not having the latter is a breach of paragraph 12 of the PoFA 2012 Schedule 4, and more importantly it is a criminal offence, although only the council can pursue it.
Sadly most don't, but there are a couple that do.

Whilst waiting I slowly compiled a POPLA appeal using the examples in the Newbies section. I left out the point regarding permission for ANPR cameras as all the examples say 'Pole-mounted' and as all of the cameras at this car park are wall-mounted I assumed it didn't apply to my case. Unfortunately, it is too late to check for planning permission as my appeal is due by the 30th of this month so will leave this out.

Regarding my appeal, I have taken seven points from the examples and added my own as number one. Unfortunately, since suffering a stroke a few years ago my written English is awful and I'm useless at creating a persuasive argument and would appreciate any advice on the below point, even if it's just to say take it out altogether.


Many thanks.

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1.       No provision for people with protected medical characteristics by offering any information on how to ask for more time as is their legal right under the Equality Act 2010

The driver is a stroke survivor and has mobility difficulties and his wife was in recovery after three operations to remove breast cancer. The reason for the delay in returning to his car was due to his wife becoming fatigued and having to rest on the way back to their car. As a disabled person with mobility difficulties, the driver is entitled to a 'reasonable adjustment of more time'. As a cancer patient in remission the driver’s wife, the passenger, is also entitled to a 'reasonable adjustment of more time'.

The car park of the overstay, located at Sussex House, Crawley, has been abandoned by the owners, VM Morrisons Supermarkets PLC for over two years and Euro Car Parks has provided no information for disabled people on how to ask for more time as they were able to via Morrisons customer service desk before they abandoned their site. This is indirect discrimination against the disabled under the ‘Equality Act 2010’.

The BPA’s Code of Practice states (16) Disabled motorists

The BPA’s Code of Practice states (16.1) The Equality Act 2010 says that providers of services to the public must make ‘reasonable adjustments' to remove barriers which may discriminate against disabled people.

The BPA’s Code of Practice states (16.2) ‘Reasonable adjustments’ to prevent discrimination are likely to include larger ‘disabled’ parking spaces near to the entrance or amenities for disabled people whose mobility is impaired. It also could include lowered payment machines and other ways to pay if payment is required: for example, paying by phone. You and your staff also need to realise that some disabled people may take a long time to get to the payment machine. (This also includes disabled people taking a long time returning to their vehicle).

The BPA’s Code of Practice states (16.3) Operators of off-street car parks do not have to recognise the Blue Badge scheme. But many choose to do so to meet their obligations under the Equality Act. Although a Blue Badge is not issued to all disabled people it is issued to those with mobility problems. So it is a good way for parking operators to identify people who need special parking provisions.

The BPA’s Code of Practice states (16.4) You are at risk of a claim under the Equality Act if you do not discourage abuse of the ‘disabled’ spaces. This means that you need to make sure the spaces are regularly checked to be sure they are not being used by people who do not have a disability.

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Have a good day everyone 

Coupon-mad

That looks like a good addition to the usual POPLA points.

Attach as evidence a copy of the Blue badge, even though that part is just see. By POPLA as mitigation (because they fail to apply the Equality Act).  The point is that it might persuade ECP to cancel.

Whilst waiting I slowly compiled a POPLA appeal using the examples in the Newbies section. I left out the point regarding permission for ANPR cameras as all the examples say 'Pole-mounted' and as all of the cameras at this car park are wall-mounted I assumed it didn't apply to my case. Unfortunately, it is too late to check for planning permission as my appeal is due by the 30th of this month so will leave this out.

You are right to leave this out.

But a Popla code lasts 33 days, NOT the 28 days POPLA and PPCs pretend, just so you know.

Regarding my appeal, I have taken seven points from the examples and added my own as number one. Unfortunately, since suffering a stroke a few years ago my written English is awful and I'm useless at creating a persuasive argument.

I disagree!

Looks perfectly well argued even though it's mitigation according to POPLA (it is actually the law and ECP know this).

KitKatKen

Thank you Coupon-Mad,

I'm feeling a little more confident now. Fingers crossed. 



One other update

Fruitcake said:

You could check with the local planning department to see what the original maximum permitted parking time was stipulated when the original planning permission was granted for the site. 
It is quite common for an unregulated parking company to arbitrarily reduce this so they can generate more revenue.

I followed Fruitcake's advice above and contacted my local planning department and was surprised to receive a reply within 24 hours with the following response:


"Dear Mr xxxxx,

I have checked whether there were any conditions applied to the original planning application for this site and have found none.

This would not normally be a condition that the LPA would impose as car parking is not development so, therefore, falls outside the realm of planning.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Senior Planning Investigations Officer."

Have I contacted the wrong department or can I assume they never had permission to stipulate a maximum permitted parking time?

Many thanks again.

KitKatKen

I don't believe it!

I won my appeal! 

I uploaded my appeal late last night around 10 pm (it took three attempts to upload) and received this email reply just after 8 am this morning. 

"Dear Mr xxxxx,

Thank you for submitting your parking charge appeal to POPLA.

An appeal has been opened with the reference xxxxxxxxxx

Euro Car Parks - EW have told us they do not wish to contest the appeal. This means that your appeal is successful and you do not need to pay the parking charge.

Yours sincerely

POPLA Team"

I've never known such a quick response from POPLA before, less than 12 hours!

And a huge thank you to all who advised, especially Coupon-Mad and Fruitcake, I took both your advice and spent a few extra hours making my appeal as personal as possible.

Pity they did not include the reason why but I'm guessing, 

'No provision for people with protected medical characteristics by offering any information on how to ask for more time as is their legal right under the Equality Act 2010' (Thank you Coupon-Mad) 

and 

'No maximum permitted parking limit stipulated when original planning permission was granted' (Thank you Fruitcake) 

as my first two points probably made them fold immediately. Either way, a win is a win and I am very happy.

I know my case was a little unique as the landowners had abandoned the site but let me know if you would like me to upload my appeal and the appropriate place for others to view/use.

 

Thank you all again and I hope everyone has a fantastic weekend. 

Redx

Well done

This happens a lot , we believe that the claimant pays no popla fee when this happens , so clearly they weren't interested in uploading an evidence pack and fighting their corner !

It's a default win due to the claimant withdrawing from the process !

Post a !ink to this thread plus the claimant details , ECP , in the Popla decisions announcement at the top of the forum

Thank you

D_P_Dance

If you feel that the PPC have wasted your time consider wasting some of theirs, read this,

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

 

KitKatKen

Redx said:

Post a !ink to this thread plus the claimant details , ECP , in the Popla decisions announcement at the top of the forum

Thank you Redx,

A link to this thread has been posted in the POPLA Decisions as requested.

KitKatKen

D_P_Dance said:

If you feel that the PPC have wasted your time consider wasting some of theirs, read this,

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

 

Why thank you D_P_Dance, I think I will!