Deposit held by company after cancelling order question?

Manxman_in_exile

I know the OP has described the payment as a "deposit", but is that definitely what it is as opposed to some kind of non-returnable reservation fee to "buy" a place in the queue to buy what is apparently a new, limited run model of what is (apparently) a much sought after 'bike?

If it's not a down payment on the purchase price but a reservation fee, does that not make it potentially non-refundable if the OP's BiL decides not to go ahead?

Jenni_D

As above ... if they sell the bike to another buyer for the same amount then there is no* loss of profit. At most there are admin costs in transferring the order to a new buyer and processing the original buyer's refund.

* If they don't sell the bike then arguably their loss of profit may be higher than the £500 deposit. But they'd need to prove they couldn't sell that bike.

Jumblebumble

Ergates said:

bris said:

It's not about having to resell a bike they have access to an unlimited supply of. They can keep all of the deposit because it represents a loss of profit.

It's not the only one they have, or have access to. If it was second habd they yes they would have to mitigate the loss but not in this case.

The contract has been breached and their no deposit return is binding if it represents the profit they would have made.

The might be why they *want* to keep the deposit, but that doesn't mean they're allowed to - they don't get to keep the bike *and* have the profits from selling it.   They get to cover legitimate costs they have incurred by the cancelled order.

It has always puzzled me why an Airline or Cruise company or any number of others can refuse to refund a non refundable deal  but resell the same seat /cabin to someone else in some cases for a much higher cost.

Ergates

Jumblebumble said:

Ergates said:

bris said:

It's not about having to resell a bike they have access to an unlimited supply of. They can keep all of the deposit because it represents a loss of profit.

It's not the only one they have, or have access to. If it was second habd they yes they would have to mitigate the loss but not in this case.

The contract has been breached and their no deposit return is binding if it represents the profit they would have made.

The might be why they *want* to keep the deposit, but that doesn't mean they're allowed to - they don't get to keep the bike *and* have the profits from selling it.   They get to cover legitimate costs they have incurred by the cancelled order.

It has always puzzled me why an Airline or Cruise company or any number of others can refuse to refund a non refundable deal  but resell the same seat /cabin to someone else in some cases for a much higher cost.

It's a bit different, in that a flight or a cruise are a time-bound.  If you cancel at the last minute they might not be able to resell the seat.  But I would argue that, ethically at least, if they *do* manage to sell your seat they should refund you the price, minus any administrative costs they've incurred.   

I don't know why they're allowed to keep all the money in those case.  Or, indeed, *if* they're allowed do.

ThumbRemote

Ergates said:

Jumblebumble said:

Ergates said:

bris said:

It's not about having to resell a bike they have access to an unlimited supply of. They can keep all of the deposit because it represents a loss of profit.

It's not the only one they have, or have access to. If it was second habd they yes they would have to mitigate the loss but not in this case.

The contract has been breached and their no deposit return is binding if it represents the profit they would have made.

The might be why they *want* to keep the deposit, but that doesn't mean they're allowed to - they don't get to keep the bike *and* have the profits from selling it.   They get to cover legitimate costs they have incurred by the cancelled order.

It has always puzzled me why an Airline or Cruise company or any number of others can refuse to refund a non refundable deal  but resell the same seat /cabin to someone else in some cases for a much higher cost.

It's a bit different, in that a flight or a cruise are a time-bound.  If you cancel at the last minute they might not be able to resell the seat.  But I would argue that, ethically at least, if they *do* manage to sell your seat they should refund you the price, minus any administrative costs they've incurred.   

I don't know why they're allowed to keep all the money in those case.  Or, indeed, *if* they're allowed do.

They aren't allowed to. They just get away with it because they make it so difficult to claim. 

There was a court case back in 2014 which Thomson lost regarding this very issue: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570258/Grandfather-wins-pay-Thomson-Holidays-landmark-legal-case-refused-refund-Spanish-trip-cancelled-wife-fell-ill.html

Advocado

Ergates said:

cx6 said:

yes i know i am an old fuddy duddy but what's a BIL?

Brother In Law

Is typing that out really that hard??

MobileSaver

Deleted_User said:

Sandtree said:

Deleted_User said:

He gave his payment details over the phone he placed the order.

That doesnt answer the question fully... did he go into the store at all? If he did then even if the order is completed on the phone its not a remote purchase.

He has said his initial order was placed over the phone.

That is still not answering the question asked; it's really important to be absolutely clear on this as otherwise many of the responses here will be completely wrong.

So, for the avoidance of doubt, did your BiL visit the retailer in person before placing the order over the phone?

Ergates

Advocado said:

Ergates said:

cx6 said:

yes i know i am an old fuddy duddy but what's a BIL?

Brother In Law

Is typing that out really that hard??

I can touch type, so not really.  But I guess if you're hunt-and-pecking then every letter counts.

[Deleted User]

Hi, my Brother In Law did not visit the place before placing the order, he did the deal on the phone, he's sent them an email asking them to break down the costs as someone recommended earlier in the post as too why they keep all the money on an item that they simply sell to the next person on the list, and it was a standard bike of a limited run, no mods or changes and the bike wouldn't have been ready until the middle of next year, they hadn't even allocated a build spot at the time of cancellation.

Anyway 6 days later and he's had no response from them.

[Deleted User]

Emailed them on the 6th Dec for a breakdown of their costs in holding the deposit and still nothing back from them.

Ive told him to email again and if they don’t reply then just go to his CC company and try for a claim back.