Fighting unfair PCN - Questions about using the 2020 Defence Template

GoldenAva

Opening a new thread to get some tailored advice.  Following advice from previous post on the forum,  no ID identifiable info has been provided here:

A local pub’s car park used to be free for customers to park.  A driver parked there for about 20 minutes when the pub was closed, and days later got a PCN for 100 pounds from a third party with the circumstances being  “permit holders only”. After ignoring all the chasing letters from this party and a debt collection company, a small claim form has been received for around 300 pounds by the same third party claimant who issued the PCN, with additional costs such as legal cost added. The driver has (on the 5th day) acknowledged the service on moneyclaim gov site. 

The drive is not the registered keeper but live in the same household. 

The main reasons for defence:

-          The driver did not see any parking signs at the time, as 1) it was previously always free for customers to park so was not looking out for any sign, 2) it was dark. 3) the pub was closed as it was lockdown period, and it was supposed to be for 10 minutes or so for the driver to pop in to a nearby pharmacy. 

-          Because of the driver did not see the sign, no contract has been formed and broken.

-          The claimant has added nearly 200 pounds on top of original claim which are unrecoverable as per other cases won (ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015]?).

Questions:

1)     Are these defence enough for a win (using the 2020 defence template)?

2)     Is it too late now for the driver to complain to the pub (assuming it is the landowner) ? can the landowner still ask the claimant to withdraw the court claim?

3)     Does it matter the reason for the driver to park there briefly was medical reason – eg visiting the pharmacy nearby for prescription? Do such details help explain the situation for the judgement? If so, should evidence be provided?

4)     The legal representative who signed the SOT on the claim form did not put the full first time but just an initial. Surname is in full. Is this useful to add to the defence?

5)     How important is it to check the authorisation of the landowner to the agent who issued PCN to question whether the agent can indeed do that 'on behalf of' the landowner?

6)     How important is it to ask for data hold on behalf of the keeper, and in this case the driver is not the same person and has now changed to the driver's name on the defence party?

 Apologies for so many questions.  Thanks in advance for your help and advice.  

Umkomaas

1. Can be, but there's more to do than just the Defence. There'll be a Witness Statement and evidence to produce in due course. There's no silver bullet, ultimately a Judge will decide. 

2.  Never too late, but it's probably unlikely that the PPC will withdraw now they've issued proceedings and incurred costs. 

3. I can't think of any situation (other than a dire event) that gives a motorist the right to enter and park on private land in contravention of the signage showing. 

4. Pretty irrelevant. 

5. The Claimant should produce the landowner agreement as part of their WS and evidence. Important to check it then. You're unlikely to see it before that point. 

6. Not sure I understand the question in its entirety.  Once the claim has been made, there is no window available to delay the process. There are strict deadlines that the Defendant has work to, or risk an automatic loss. You cannot change the name of the Defendant from that on the claim form, regardless of they were the driver or not. 

Time to give us the full details of the case if you want substantive help. Start with the name of the PPC, their legal reps name and the Date of Issue shown on the claim form. 

KeithP

GoldenAva said:

A small claim form has been received... 

The driver has (on the 5th day) acknowledged the service on moneyclaim gov site. 

The drive is not the registered keeper but live in the same household. 

Hello and welcome.

Those few words are a bit confusing.

Who has received the County Court Claim Form? 
In other words, is the named Defendant the Registered Keeper of the vehicle?
If so, why has the driver of the vehicle acknowledged service of the Claim?

Please tell us the Issue Date on the County Court Claim Form.
Upon what date was an Acknowledgment of Service filed?
The MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Just to re-emphasise...
It is important to differentiate between the actions of the driver and the registered keeper and equally important that the Claim is defended by the named Defendant.

GoldenAva

Thank you @Umkomaas and @KeithP

The registered keeper received the claim form but is not the driver.  On the Acknowledgement of Service form, there is a field saying "defendant's full name if different from name given on the claim form". So i thought this could be changed to another person?

KeithP

GoldenAva said:

The registered keeper received the claim form but is not the driver.  On the Acknowledgement of Service form, there is a field saying "defendant's full name if different from name given on the claim form". So i thought this could be changed to another person?

No, you are mistaken on that point.
That can only be used to change or correct the name of the named Defendant.
It cannot be used to change the person who is named as the Defendant.

It is the Registered Keeper who must Defend the Claim.

Can you please answer these questions...

KeithP said:

Please tell us the Issue Date on the County Court Claim Form.
Upon what date was an Acknowledgment of Service filed?
The MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

GoldenAva

@Umkomaas

"Not sure I understand the question in its entirety. "

Sorry, the question was about  How important is it to ask for data held on behalf of the keeper, who is not the driver?

I read somewhere on this forum that says it is useful to obtain such data from the claimant before the court hearing to see what info they hold of the keeper. Hence the question.

Umkomaas

GoldenAva said:

@Umkomaas

"Not sure I understand the question in its entirety. "

Sorry, the question was about  How important is it to ask for data held on behalf of the keeper, who is not the driver?

I read somewhere on this forum that says it is useful to obtain such data from the claimant before the court hearing to see what info they hold of the keeper. Hence the question.

Yep, that's correct. You need everything they hold in terms of personal information about the Defendant and the VRM of the vehicle (that's deemed personal information too).

You need to send a SAR (the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, has a link to a suitable template to use). The PPC has 30 days to respond and are unlikely to do so much before the deadline. It's not critical to the development of your Defence, more useful for the WS stage. 

PPC and solicitor names please?  

Please confirm the PCN relates to an event in England/Wales (as opposed to Scotland/NI where different rules apply), just so we're all on the same track. 

GoldenAva

Just returning here to say thanks to everyone above who helped.  At the last step (after I receive the course hearing date) the claimant withdrew the case. Much appreciate the template and the clarifications.

KeithP

And you managed to do that without answering any of the questions asked here by the regular contributors.

The fact that you won the battle will help no-one as we never did know who your opponent was.

Well done -- I think.

Umkomaas

GoldenAva said:

Just returning here to say thanks to everyone above who helped.  At the last step (after I receive the course hearing date) the claimant withdrew the case. Much appreciate the template and the clarifications.

Well done.  Any chance of name of PPC and solicitors, otherwise it all lacks a bit of context?  Doesn't exactly pinpoint a PPC to naive newbies to give them the confidence that they too can prevail against them. 

GoldenAva

KeithP said:

And you managed to do that without answering any of the questions asked here by the regular contributors.

The fact that you won the battle will help no-one as we never did know who your opponent was.

Well done -- I think.

apologies. i did read from one of the treads from the main one that i shall never give details of solicitors and PCN in case the claimant is monitoring the forum too, hence my lack of reply on that. However I still found the advice on the forum helpful and esp those who had won gave me confidence to go along.   Now the case has dropped, i can reveal the solicitor is Civil Enforcement Limited