Lufthansa - will be denied boarding, so would like a refund

michael1234

eskbanker said:

michael1234 said:

soolin said:

michael1234 said:

So what would happen if the OP rocked up to the check-in desk to check in? Presumably Lufthansa would deny boarding and could the OP request a refund at that point ? This is a different situation to the one posted here recently which the poster didn't attempt to check in at all.

Why would OP be given a refund if they turned up and were turned away as not being able to enter Israel? 

My thinking is because they would be refused to fly by Lufthansa (not by Israel as they'd be in the UK at check-in).

That would make it more explicit that LH had sold the OP they couldn't use...

Its more of a question than any certainty in the matter.

And the answer is that airlines' obligations to refund customers for denied boarding effectively only apply where such denial is within their control (e.g. overbooking) - lack of compliance with entry regulations imposed by the destination country is deemed to be reasonable grounds for denial in the context of the regulations:

"denied boarding" means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2), except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation

The OP complied with the entry regulations at the point of sale.

I think the answer is nobody really knows as we are in unpresented times. For anyone to claim that they "know the answer" is for the birds.

bagand96

michael1234 said:

eskbanker said:

michael1234 said:

soolin said:

michael1234 said:

So what would happen if the OP rocked up to the check-in desk to check in? Presumably Lufthansa would deny boarding and could the OP request a refund at that point ? This is a different situation to the one posted here recently which the poster didn't attempt to check in at all.

Why would OP be given a refund if they turned up and were turned away as not being able to enter Israel? 

My thinking is because they would be refused to fly by Lufthansa (not by Israel as they'd be in the UK at check-in).

That would make it more explicit that LH had sold the OP they couldn't use...

Its more of a question than any certainty in the matter.

And the answer is that airlines' obligations to refund customers for denied boarding effectively only apply where such denial is within their control (e.g. overbooking) - lack of compliance with entry regulations imposed by the destination country is deemed to be reasonable grounds for denial in the context of the regulations:

"denied boarding" means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2), except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation

The OP complied with the entry regulations at the point of sale.

I think the answer is nobody really knows as we are in unpresented times. For anyone to claim that they "know the answer" is for the birds.

Entry regulations are not the airlines problem, Covid related or not.  Lufthansa cannot be held responsible for the actions of the Israeli Government. 

Point of sale is irrelevant. Countries can and do change their entry requirements often, it’s up to the passenger to comply. 

HeinzVarieties

michael1234 said:

eskbanker said:

michael1234 said:

soolin said:

michael1234 said:

So what would happen if the OP rocked up to the check-in desk to check in? Presumably Lufthansa would deny boarding and could the OP request a refund at that point ? This is a different situation to the one posted here recently which the poster didn't attempt to check in at all.

Why would OP be given a refund if they turned up and were turned away as not being able to enter Israel? 

My thinking is because they would be refused to fly by Lufthansa (not by Israel as they'd be in the UK at check-in).

That would make it more explicit that LH had sold the OP they couldn't use...

Its more of a question than any certainty in the matter.

And the answer is that airlines' obligations to refund customers for denied boarding effectively only apply where such denial is within their control (e.g. overbooking) - lack of compliance with entry regulations imposed by the destination country is deemed to be reasonable grounds for denial in the context of the regulations:

"denied boarding" means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2), except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation

The OP complied with the entry regulations at the point of sale.

I think the answer is nobody really knows as we are in unpresented times. For anyone to claim that they "know the answer" is for the birds.

It doesn't matter, the airlines do not set the conditions of entry.  That doesn't mean you have a get out of jail card if you don't meet them.  That generally isn't a moving target but currently is and has been for some time (so stop booking non-refundable tickets people.)

It's also not really relevant that these are "unprecedented times".  It's no different to someone being denied entry because they don't have a valid passport or visa and I'm pretty sure the airlines are allowed to deny boarding for those reasons and you won't be due a refund.

eskbanker

michael1234 said:

eskbanker said:

michael1234 said:

soolin said:

michael1234 said:

So what would happen if the OP rocked up to the check-in desk to check in? Presumably Lufthansa would deny boarding and could the OP request a refund at that point ? This is a different situation to the one posted here recently which the poster didn't attempt to check in at all.

Why would OP be given a refund if they turned up and were turned away as not being able to enter Israel? 

My thinking is because they would be refused to fly by Lufthansa (not by Israel as they'd be in the UK at check-in).

That would make it more explicit that LH had sold the OP they couldn't use...

Its more of a question than any certainty in the matter.

And the answer is that airlines' obligations to refund customers for denied boarding effectively only apply where such denial is within their control (e.g. overbooking) - lack of compliance with entry regulations imposed by the destination country is deemed to be reasonable grounds for denial in the context of the regulations:

"denied boarding" means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2), except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation

The OP complied with the entry regulations at the point of sale.

I think the answer is nobody really knows as we are in unpresented times. For anyone to claim that they "know the answer" is for the birds.

Ah right, so the fact that you don't know the answer means that nobody else can either, and you're asking a question rhetorically, in the belief that nobody can legitimately answer it?

Thrugelmir

michael1234 said:

eskbanker said:

michael1234 said:

soolin said:

michael1234 said:

So what would happen if the OP rocked up to the check-in desk to check in? Presumably Lufthansa would deny boarding and could the OP request a refund at that point ? This is a different situation to the one posted here recently which the poster didn't attempt to check in at all.

Why would OP be given a refund if they turned up and were turned away as not being able to enter Israel? 

My thinking is because they would be refused to fly by Lufthansa (not by Israel as they'd be in the UK at check-in).

That would make it more explicit that LH had sold the OP they couldn't use...

Its more of a question than any certainty in the matter.

And the answer is that airlines' obligations to refund customers for denied boarding effectively only apply where such denial is within their control (e.g. overbooking) - lack of compliance with entry regulations imposed by the destination country is deemed to be reasonable grounds for denial in the context of the regulations:

"denied boarding" means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2), except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation

The OP complied with the entry regulations at the point of sale.

I think the answer is nobody really knows as we are in unpresented times. For anyone to claim that they "know the answer" is for the birds.

Principle that matters not the cause. 

onashoestring

michael1234 said:

So what would happen if the OP rocked up to the check-in desk to check in? Presumably Lufthansa would deny boarding and could the OP request a refund at that point ? This is a different situation to the one posted here recently which the poster didn't attempt to check in at all.

The OP still would not be entitled to a refund , and would miss out on Lufthansa offer to rebook the tickets ( which their website says must be made prior to the original scheduled travel date ) -
and also would have incurred the cost of transport to and fro the airport for a pointless trip. 

Butts

Thrugelmir said:

michael1234 said:

soolin said:

michael1234 said:

So what would happen if the OP rocked up to the check-in desk to check in? Presumably Lufthansa would deny boarding and could the OP request a refund at that point ? This is a different situation to the one posted here recently which the poster didn't attempt to check in at all.

Why would OP be given a refund if they turned up and were turned away as not being able to enter Israel? 

My thinking is because they would be refused to fly by Lufthansa (not by Israel as they'd be in the UK at check-in).

That would make it more explicit that LH had sold the OP they couldn't use...

Its more of a question than any certainty in the matter.

That's why airlines sell fully refundable / transferrable tickets. Customers have a choice as to how much risk they are personally happy to accept. After nearly two years of a global pandemic. People need to start accepting responsibility for their own decisions.  

Or book with someone like BA where he could have bought any ticket and  still cancelled (for  a voucher)  almost up to check in time ?

CKhalvashi

What does your contract with Lufthansa state? This will be the starting point if all 4 flights leave.

Of course if you don't take the first flight due to your (current) non-admissibility to Israel, your ticket will have been cancelled as per the terms and conditions you agreed to. Silvercar has given further advice on how to ensure you are admissible.

This is a matter for your insurance for any amount you are not contractually obliged to receive back. You will get taxes and fees from Lufthansa, possibly minus a penalty, and the rest will be an insurable event if you have insurance cover.

The flight will likely still run for the benefit of Israeli citizens and residents who Lufthansa are contractually bound to transport.