(Update - now court claim, defence attached) - Advice on POPLA comments to operator evidence

KeithP

EpsomJim said:

Question - should I quote the relevant bits from the Jopson v Home Guard case, or do I rely on them being looked up (as with many of the references in the template defence)?

Neither.

Along with all the other references in your Defence, you provide them as evidence at the time you file your Witness Statement.

Coupon-mad

It is admitted that on XX.XX.XXXX, the vehicle was stopped at [location of car park] for five minutes and sixteen seconds.

Why are you admitting that? I wouldn't.

You have no knowledge of the exact time (could have been 4 minutes 16 seconds) and certainly shouldn't be absolving the Claimant of the need to prove their case!

Their still images have timestamp but anyone can change that.  I would never accept their timings - especially when it conveniently suggests that the car stopped for a few seconds over the 5 minute consideration period.

They would say that, wouldn't they?!

Why not ask for the continuous CCTV footage (moving images) to be supplied because the driver believes they stopped for less than 5 minutes and were likely on stationary for a period within the minimum grace period allowed by the Trade Body Code.  Neither the driver nor the Defendant passenger accepts the unproven timestamps on a couple of cherry-picked still images created by a parking firm, given how easy it is to add them later and/or alter them.  The Claimant is put to strict proof of the claimed timing and the Defendant wishes the court to review the moving footage instead of accepting unchecked timestamps added after the event, by an unidentified employee of the Claimant.

EpsomJim

Thank you both. Here is a further updated version. Unless I hear anything more, I will submit this by 4pm today, according to instructions on forum.

1.     It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of vehicle registration XXXX XXX which is the subject of these proceedings.

2.     The original Parking Charge Notice (PCN) states that on XX.XX.XXXX, the vehicle was stopped at [location of car park] from XX.XX.XX to XX.XX.XX. This timing is not admitted, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the claimed timing. The Defendant wishes the court to review the full moving footage, instead of accepting still images with unchecked timestamps created by the Claimant’s unidentified employees, as has been provided to date. The Defendant believes they stopped for less than five minutes and were only stationary for a period within the minimum consideration period allowed by the British Parking Association.

3.     It is not admitted that the car was parked at the location. The Defendant left the vehicle for a few minutes, but the vehicle was attended throughout with the engine running. Attention is drawn to paras 19-21 of an appeal case at the Oxford County Court, JOPSON v HOME GUARD SERVICES case number 9GF0A9E on 29th June 2016, where the judge’s comments on stopping as opposed to parking are persuasive.

4.     The signage on-site was not sufficient to allow the Defendant to understand any restrictions in place. There was no entrance sign on the side of the car park that the Defendant entered at, and other signage referring to conditions of parking was either not in positions that made them easy to see, nor in clear, concise language.

5.     The Defendant believes the contract with the landowner, which the Claimant relies upon to issue PCNs, does not accord with appropriate legislation. If the contract is not valid, the Defendant cannot be in breach of its Terms. The Claimant is put to strict proof that the contract is valid.

8.     If the Claimant can prove validity of the contract, the Defendant believes that there was no breach in its Terms, as the contract makes specific provisions for a car that is stopped rather than parked. As such, the Claimant cannot have served the PCN properly.

Coupon-mad

"It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of vehicle registration XXXX XXX which is the subject of these proceedings."

Eh?  Either you weren't or the stuff about the engine still running is untrue.

KeithP

@EpsomJim, did you file a Defence?

EpsomJim

KeithP said:

@EpsomJim, did you file a Defence?

I did file a defence. Got directions questionnaire form through last week, and am completing. Also got offer to settle from other side along with their questionnaire.

EpsomJim

EpsomJim said:

KeithP said:

@EpsomJim, did you file a Defence?

Also got offer to settle from other side along with their questionnaire.

Which I’m trying to ignore, harder given the torrid time I’m having with my other issue (other thread I posted today!)

EpsomJim

All, I hope you are well.

My court date for this claim is approaching - 27th October - and the Claimant's solicitors have today sent me their witness statement and bundle.

I am going to spend the next few days preparing my witness statement and evidence, in order to submit in good time (court papers say 5 days before, I want to hit the 14 days talked about in the FAQ).

I wanted to understand what would be most helpful in terms of getting some assistance from the wise heads on the forum. Would you like to see their bundle (which I have redacted)? At first glance, they have spend a decent amount of time engaging with the points in my defence. Or does it not matter because I am just evidencing my own Defence?

Le_Kirk

Just check the court letter(s) again carefully; are you certain that the main/first letter states five days before and not 14 as that is most unusual?

EpsomJim

Le_Kirk said:

Just check the court letter(s) again carefully; are you certain that the main/first letter states five days before and not 14 as that is most unusual?

You are quite right, and I literally have no idea where I read five days. That is bizarre! In any case, I was going to submit before Friday anyway...