HSBC Bank UK requires 100+ years of financial records - Financial Ombudsman agrees!

Undervalued

GraceCourt said:

Undervalued said:

Surely any bank is entitled to decide that they don't want to deal with a particular customer any more (obviously excluding legally protected reasons such as race etc) and can close their account just by giving appropriate notice?

As another poster has said, sadly most banks don't want these type of accounts any more.

It's still shocking that the Financial Ombudsman Service won't accept complaints about financial service providers from unincorporated associations that are not trusts or charities: even if commercial interests mean that banks (etc.) no longer want to provide services to such associations, they still have to provide those services according to the Financial Conduct Authority's rules.

Except, of course, to associations such as ours, when they can throw the rule book out of the window, as the FCA Handbook rules don't protect them.  So, organisations such as Brownie packs and charitable community groups have no recourse whatsoever when they get poor service or treatment from their banks.

It's a lacuna in the rules that really needs to be addressed.

I know this is the forum for "vents" but that is all you are doing. I am struggling to see that the bank are doing anything wrong here. As I understand it, the FOS is a free service for private individual and small businesses up to a certain turnover. You are neither so you fall outside their legal remit. Lobby you MP to try and get that changed if you wish but that won't help with you current difficulty.

jimbo6977

Undervalued said:

GraceCourt said:

Undervalued said:

Surely any bank is entitled to decide that they don't want to deal with a particular customer any more (obviously excluding legally protected reasons such as race etc) and can close their account just by giving appropriate notice?

As another poster has said, sadly most banks don't want these type of accounts any more.

It's still shocking that the Financial Ombudsman Service won't accept complaints about financial service providers from unincorporated associations that are not trusts or charities: even if commercial interests mean that banks (etc.) no longer want to provide services to such associations, they still have to provide those services according to the Financial Conduct Authority's rules.

Except, of course, to associations such as ours, when they can throw the rule book out of the window, as the FCA Handbook rules don't protect them.  So, organisations such as Brownie packs and charitable community groups have no recourse whatsoever when they get poor service or treatment from their banks.

It's a lacuna in the rules that really needs to be addressed.

I know this is the forum for "vents" but that is all you are doing. I am struggling to see that the bank are doing anything wrong here. As I understand it, the FOS is a free service for private individual and small businesses up to a certain turnover. You are neither so you fall outside their legal remit. Lobby you MP to try and get that changed if you wish but that won't help with you current difficulty.

Trouble is, if it's impossible for a bank to "know" this sort of customer, they will be unable to open an account with any bank. Not sure that's a societally optimal outcome. 

GraceCourt

Sandtree said:

They have quoted the rule that they have requested information that you/your organisation has refused/failed to provide not that its because you are an unincorporated association.

DISP 2.7.3 from the FCA Handbook states:

Eligible complainants

An eligible complainant must be a person that is:

(1)  a consumer; or

(2)  a micro-enterprise ;

    (a)  in relation to a complaint relating wholly or partly to payment services, either at the time of the conclusion of the payment service contract or at the time the complainant refers the complaint to the respondent; or

    (b)  otherwise, at the time the complainant refers the complaint to the respondent; or

(3)  a charity which has an annual income of less than £6.5 million at the time the complainant refers the complaint to the respondent; or

(4)  a trustee of a trust which has a net asset value of less than £5 million at the time the complainant refers the complaint to the respondent; or

(5)  (in relation to CBTL business) a CBTL consumer; or

(6)  a small business at the time the complainant refers the complaint to the respondent; or

(7)  a guarantor.

As you can see from the FCA Handbook, unincorporated associations are NOT "eligible complainants" and therefore complaints by such to the FOS are rejected.

I've advised the FOS that it is not generally known that complaints from unincorporated associations are not accepted but there has been no further response from them and the point of listing DISP 2.7.3 is to draw attention on here to the implications for clubs, societies, etc., who have no recourse to the FOS when their bank or other financial institution treats them badly or refuses to deal with a complaint properly.

As an aside, I see that HSBC have just paid a fine of £64m for yet again failing to address money laundering properly: that's no surprise whatsoever given that no-one at HSBC seems to have any idea about how to do so.  Whilst they're busy closing the accounts of clubs and societies like ours on the basis of the events of 105 years ago, the crooks are laundering billions right now.

You just couldn't make this stuff up!

Ectophile

The reason they are closing all these accounts is because they have been fined for money laundering.  Again.

They are now taking the attitude that if they don't really know what organisation an account belongs to, then they don't want that account any more.

GraceCourt

The good news is that, despite a few hiccoughs along the way (and everyone makes mistakes, I'm a realist) our association now has a brand new Virgin Money current account (and a very smart chequebook of 50 cheques, which we will use to send Christmas welfare payments to elderly widows), 95-day deposit account, debit card, online banking, but most importantly, with no fees or charges of any sort.

HSBC Bank PLC, on the other hand, stopped responding to any secure messages (none of which were anything other than polite and sensible) sent to them via its online banking service, probably because they are acutely embarrassed by the whole sorry business: for a UK bank to stop answering such requests or complaints is either indescribably useless, or is aware that the FOS won't accept complaints from unincorporated associations, or (more likely) both.   I cannot emphasis strongly enough just how awful HSBC is and - especially since they have brought in charges for their charitable Treasurer Accounts - I'd thoroughly recommend switching to Virgin Money (now a brand belonging to Clydesdale Bank) instead.  There's also the ethical question as to whether any law-abiding person or organisation wants to bank with a company that's just been fined £63.9m for shortcomings with its safeguards against money-laundering!

Oh, and the HSBC deposit account (0.01% p.a. interest) that was associated with our current account is still open, despite the letter HSBC sent us advising that they would be closing all of our accounts... no doubt at some point they will write to me telling me that there's 4p interest in it, asking me what they should do with it.  I will try to resist the obvious answer, which would refer to a specific portion of their corporate anatomy...

TripleH

Glad to hear it. Thank you for the update.

HSBC sent my cheque and paying in book for my Australian account to my parent's address in the UK. Then told my wife and I that when we opened a joint account that it should be in my name as I had one of the best credit scores the guy had seen. He then asked if he could check if my employment status was still unemployed. (I'd last gone in just after getting back from Australia)..

nyermen

No love for HSBC here (despite being a customer), but I will say I have experience of Clydesdale that isn't so great either (through my employment).
That said - I was very impressed with Virgin when I worked with them up in Newcastle, so hopefully CYBG are letting them do their own thing.

GraceCourt

Update!

You couldn't write this stuff.  Out of the blue, I recently got a letter from HSBC stating that, as I hadn't been using our account for 12 months, it will shortly be closed or made dormant.  I pointed out that I had a letter from them last year (enclosing a copy) informing me that it would be closed for failing to provide the information required by their Safeguard Review, and they wrote back stating that, as I had provided that information (no, I didn't) they hadn't closed it and told me that they wouldn't (no, they didn't, they were demanding information about what had happened in 1916, i.e. 106 years ago!).  I pointed out that, in reality, none of my secure messages complaining about the enforced closure never received any response from them.

All accounts were emptied prior to "closure" last year but I'm looking forward to receiving their response to the above and their cheque for the balance!

By the way, for unincorporated associations that are not eligible to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service, you can complain to the Business Banking Resolution Service.  Eligibility can be checked here.

GraceCourt

GraceCourt said:

... no doubt at some point they will write to me telling me that there's 4p interest in it, asking me what they should do with it...

I was wrong, it wasn't 4p, it was 2p!   They didn't close the Business Money Manager account until 30 November 2022 (over a year after they said in writing that they'd close it), but 2p interest credited on 12 March 2022 was just taken away, debited on the date of closure with a cryptic entry stating "Credit interest corrected"!

I've written back, asking which of the terms and conditions enables them just to take it rather than paying it.  Don't hold your breath!