Extension over a public sewer

notthatgirl

Hi all,
We are first time sellers, our house has an extension that was built over a public sewer access long ago (built before we bought it) I.e. there is buried manhole underneath it. 

We are happy to get an indemnity policy for our buyers and have never had to give access to Thames Water since we have been living here. 

Do you think we need to reduce the price of the house in order to sell it or should an indemnity policy be enough? 

Section62

notthatgirl said:

Hi all,
We are first time sellers, our house has an extension that was built over a public sewer access long ago (built before we bought it) I.e. there is buried manhole underneath it. 

We are happy to get an indemnity policy for our buyers and have never had to give access to Thames Water since we have been living here. 

Do you think we need to reduce the price of the house in order to sell it or should an indemnity policy be enough? 

Is it already on the market, are you talking about buyers you already have?

If not, then market it at whatever you want, be prepared to negotiate with the buyer if the indemnity policy isn't enough for them, and be willing to move on to a different buyer if they won't agree a price acceptable to you.


Is the manhole completely buried with no access whatsoever?  I.e. no removable section of floor giving access to a sealed cover? For me personally that would be a sticking point - no access means (potentially) no possibility of getting a CCTV survey of the pipes.  I would at the very least want you to put in some means of access so I can find out what kind of liability I'm taking on.

notthatgirl

Hi,

Thank you for the advice. 
it’s not on the market yet we are just doing our research right now on what could come up. 

There is another access in the front of the house which leads up to the buried manhole, so the buyers can easily get a CCTV survey done. 

The access in the middle of the extension is completely buried. We never fixed it because we weren’t sure if creating an access to the manhole inside the house would put off some buyers. 

Kind of lost on what’s the best route, whether we should create this access before selling or take the risk and see what buyers think. 

Snookie12cat

notthatgirl said:

Hi all,
We are first time sellers, our house has an extension that was built over a public sewer access long ago (built before we bought it) I.e. there is buried manhole underneath it. 

We are happy to get an indemnity policy for our buyers and have never had to give access to Thames Water since we have been living here. 

Do you think we need to reduce the price of the house in order to sell it or should an indemnity policy be enough? 

How old is the property? There is no issue with doing this depending on when the sewers were taken into public ownership. 

Depending on the age of the property would help determine what you need to do. 

notthatgirl

The property is a Victorian cottage around 1900s but the extension was built around 1995

Snookie12cat

notthatgirl said:

The property is a Victorian cottage around 1900s but the extension was built around 1995

In that case the sewers have likely always been in public ownership and you need a build over agreement or building regs etc to say that building over them was agreed. 
I suppose a indemnity might be the only way to go. 

As there is access out the front I probably wouldn't be put off as a buyer but the solicitor will almost certainly ask for an indemnity I would believe.

I'm inclined to say do not mention it, as not everyone gets a survey and some people maybe completely unaware that this is a problem. Might not even be picked up by the solicitors. 

Section62

notthatgirl said:

There is another access in the front of the house which leads up to the buried manhole, so the buyers can easily get a CCTV survey done.

The foul manhole at the front of a property of that age is often an interceptor, and more often than not there can be problems doing CCTV surveys from interceptors.  You could get this checked before marketing the property by having the front cover lifted and seeing whether the pipe coming from the rear is visible and has no standing water in it.  It doesn't guarantee a CCTV survey is possible, but it would rule out the most common issue.

But...

The manhole at the rear of S24 properties is usually where the sewer goes round a bend, or forms a 'T' junction.  CCTV cameras usually won't go round bends, so the survey from the front manhole would get to that point and then be abandoned.  Which usually would also mean not obtaining survey footage of the sewer at the most vulnerable location(s) where it passes under the external walls.

Maybe if your neighbour(s) have got manholes and they are friendly enough to let the CCTV crew work in their properties to access the sewer from them?

But it does highlight the issue that without access to the manhole on your property, any survey/maintenance work is hassle - and although that hassle in the case of a public sewer is normally the responsibility of the sewerage undertaker, an alert buyer might make the connection that the sewerage company may demand access be restored.

notthatgirl said:

The access in the middle of the extension is completely buried. We never fixed it because we weren’t sure if creating an access to the manhole inside the house would put off some buyers. 

Kind of lost on what’s the best route, whether we should create this access before selling or take the risk and see what buyers think.

It is a risk... you'll need to weigh up whether this is information that you may feel you need to (or must?) declare to the buyer, and also the implications that late discovery of the problem might have on the sale.  If you are going to be in a chain then what happens if the buyer discovers the problem immediately before exchange and pulls out?  How much of a risk do you want to take? (not necessarily financial, the emotional aspect of this shouldn't be underestimated).

There is a further issue in whether access can feasibly be restored.  Do you have any idea if there is still a manhole cover under the floor somewhere, or did the builder put a paving slab (or something) over the top of the hole and bury the lot in 6" of concrete?

notthatgirl

Thank you both, this is really informative. You are right @Section62 there is a T junction where the manhole sits. Wouldn’t the junction be the most crucial part to check for blockages though? (Sorry I’m just guessing here)

we will find out about the interceptor bit you mentioned. 

Re informing the buyers, I think they will know once the drain searches come back anyway.  Isn’t that correct?

The portion of the house is tiled and we never disturbed it so I am not sure if it was filled in by the builders or not. Might be worth finding out!

Slinky

We decided to be upfront with our EA telling viewers we had a buildover agreement with a public sewer running close (but not under) the corner of our extension. We decided that if people were likely to be put off by that it was better that they didn't offer. We also told them the boiler hadn't been registered with Corgi. I think because we were so obviously upfront the purchasers trusted us and didn't even have a survey (they raised a mortgage on their old house they were retaining for a buy to let).

Section62

notthatgirl said:

You are right @Section62 there is a T junction where the manhole sits. Wouldn’t the junction be the most crucial part to check for blockages though? (Sorry I’m just guessing here)

Junctions and bends are common places for blockages to form, but the main reason why a buyer would get a CCTV survey done is to check the condition of the pipe looking for things like fractures, displacement, shape changes and distortion, root penetration etc etc.  Blockages are relatively easy to clear, the problem in this kind of situation is knowing whether the pipes under the building have been damaged or are failing.

So to confirm there are no defects the CCTV camera has to be pushed or pulled along the whole length of the pipe(s), with the lens above the level of the water (if any).

In your case, once the camera has been pushed up to the T junction from the front manhole, that's about as far as the surveyors will be able to get without having access to one or both 'arms' of the T.  In which case the buyers would still be in the dark about whether or not some of the pipes may need repair or replacement during the time they own the property.

notthatgirl

Agree with you @Slinky it can cause a lot of delays down the line if we try to hide it. Its nice to see that the buyers trusted you so much, rarely see owners being upfront tbh.

@Section62 makes sense to me now. I think it might be worth talking to the neighbours to see from if the buyers can get a CCTV if they wanted to see around the bends. Still not sure about surfacing the drains, will need to make a decision soon