leak from upstairs flat-liability question??

croboy

hi we own a downstairs flat and had a major leak through ceiling due to upstairs bath leaking/not sealed properly. The managing agent for the upstairs landlord is refusing to give us any insurance details/even landlords name. We have insurance but am reluctant to make a claim/pay excess. If we take them to small claims will we 100% win-what would you recommend? In terms of evidence all i have is photos of the leak and some emails from managing agent to say they are going to fix the source of leak.

HampshireH

For contents you would claim on yours.

For buildings then the building insurance however it's unlikely your ceiling will fall within the buildings policy 

What's the damage?

You are entitled to see a copy of the buildings policy from your freeholder.

What policy of the flat above are you hoping exists to claim on?

And do you have the equivalent for your flat which says a neighbour could make a claim for damages? (I ask as it not something often see in flats)

JamieJ89

Put in a formal complaint to the managing agent.

also, as a last resort make a claim through your insurance policy - appreciate this isn’t ideal and you will need to stump up your excess at first, but your insurer will seek recovery from the responsible party (the landlords insurer). 

Presumably you pay a service charge in the block, which goes towards the buildings insurance?  

Pixie5740

croboy said:

hi we own a downstairs flat and had a major leak through ceiling due to upstairs bath leaking/not sealed properly. The managing agent for the upstairs landlord is refusing to give us any insurance details/even landlords name. We have insurance but am reluctant to make a claim/pay excess. If we take them to small claims will we 100% win-what would you recommend? In terms of evidence all i have is photos of the leak and some emails from managing agent to say they are going to fix the source of leak.

The letting agency has no obligation to hand over their client's details to you.  You have contents insurance....use it.  That is what it is for after all.  When trying to establish legal responsibility for the leak there is the question of negligence or nuisance.  If the leak is found to be a nuisance rather than caused by negligence you won't be able to make any claim on the upstairs owner.

https://www.lease-advice.org/article/water-is-leaking-from-my-neighbours-flat-and-damaging-mine-who-should-pay-for-it/

eddddy

Getting details of the upstairs landlord's insurance isn't a good starting point,

It works like this:

• To make a claim from somebody, you have to show that they were negligent.

• If you think that the upstairs tenant was negligent - you could try claiming from them

• If you think that the upstairs landlord was negligent - you could try claiming from them

• If the upstairs tenant and/or landlord agree that they were negligent - they can either pay you directly or they can make a claim on their insurance

If you cannot show that somebody was negligent, then you are responsible for fixing the damage to your flat and contents yourself.

So you can:

• Pay for damage/repairs to your flat and contents yourself

• Make a claim on your contents insurance for damage/repairs to your contents

• Make a claim on the Buildings Insurance for damage to your flat (in England/Wales, typically it's the freeholder who arranges buildings insurance)

Any insurance claim will have an excess which you'd have to pay, followed by increased premiums in future years.

If you make 2 claims (one for contents and one for buildings), you'd have to pay 2 excesses.

(Escape of water excesses can sometimes be very high - sometimes as much as £500)

user1977

croboy said:

If we take them to small claims will we 100% win

Can you explain on what basis you'd win? Do you understand the principles around negligence?

Also - which country are the flats in?

croboy

Flat is in UK, two storey (1 upper, one lower). The crazy thing is the managing agent after 2 months hasn’t been able to access the property as the tenant is refusing. Something strange is going on.

i can’t believe that I have to make an insurance claim when its a bath leak from upstairs. Seems totally unfair/contrary to common sense. 

Pixie5740

croboy said:

Flat is in UK, two storey (1 upper, one lower). The crazy thing is the managing agent after 2 months hasn’t been able to access the property as the tenant is refusing. Something strange is going on.

i can’t believe that I have to make an insurance claim when its a bath leak from upstairs. Seems totally unfair/contrary to common sense. 

Saying UK doesn’t help. Scotland is covered by Scots Law. England by English law, Wales has a mixture of English and Welsh law and Northern Ireland has Northern Irish law. 

Making a claim is common sense. It’s why you have insurance.

eddddy

croboy said:

Flat is in UK...

I think people meant England/Wales vs Scotland (and maybe vs NI).

Insurance arrangements are typically different in Scotland vs England/Wales.

Is the property a converted house - is your flat leasehold (assuming it's in England/Wales)

croboy said:

i can’t believe that I have to make an insurance claim when its a bath leak from upstairs. Seems totally unfair/contrary to common sense. 

Do you know how the leak occurred? 

For example, if the tenants left the taps running unattended, and the bath overflowed - that's probably negligent, so you could try claiming from the tenants.

But if the leak was from a hidden pipe, which nobody knew about or could have predicted - then probably nobody was negligent, so nobody to claim from.

How much damage has been done to your flat? Are you sure it's economic to make an insurance claim?

Jaybee_16

Few years ago I had a water damaged ceiling coming from the flat above mine. Phoned my insurance company who said there may be a valid claim on my insurance. I asked if they would pursue the flat owner above me for reimbursement, they said no, it may or may not have been negligent but probably not worth pursuing in terms of time it would take and cost.

deannagone

I do agree that it seems insane that the leak can originate from another flat, but you have to pay through excess and loss of no claims/higher premiums if they weren't negligent and even if they were, you can only claim through your insurance, and they don't pursue the other person either. So you pay again. For something that is nothing to do with you.