Is it allowed to set up a direct debit without me completing a Direct Debit Authorisation?

Mr.Boy

I've got a pre-installation account with a local Fibre company - nothing is tied in until they actually come and do some installation work.
They have my bank details and I noticed there is a non-active Direct Debit on my account from them. I thought I had to explicitly authorise any new DD with a standard Agreement form? Is that not the case, if I have your bank details can I set up a DD without telling you?

I stress no money has ever been taken and I'm not suggesting anything malicious. It just seems a bit unusual. I have an official Pre Order Confirmation letter and so on, but curious they have (and were allowed by the bank) created a DD. Have they done something they shouldn't?

oldagetraveller1

Is it possible that permission to set up a DD was given when you agreed to their terms to set up an account in the "standard Agreement form"?

If they take any unauthorised payments then you could invoke the DD guarantee with your bank.

Mr.Boy

oldagetraveller1 said:

Is it possible that permission to set up a DD was given when you agreed to their terms to set up an account in the "standard Agreement form"?

If they take any unauthorised payments then you could invoke the DD guarantee with your bank.

Technically I haven't signed anything, I filled in an online form expressing interest and then talked on the phone. But if that's something they are allowed to do I wouldn't be surprised it's in some small print when you send an online inquiry.

I just didn't know they could do that, I thought a DD had to be explicitly authorised. I am not suspicious of them as much as curious.

sheramber

But you say you have a pre installation account. What was involved in setting that up?  Obviously you gave them your bank details. 

Mr.Boy

sheramber said:

But you say you have a pre installation account. What was involved in setting that up?  Obviously you gave them your bank details. 

A guy phoned me back and told me how pre-installation works and that I'd get billed from the day after installation (TBA). He took my details but no mention of DD was made.

My query is as much with the bank as anything else. Let's say I buy something from you and pay you via electronic banking. I have your sort code and account number, what is to stop me setting up a DD on your account? That's why I thought banks had to use a standard DD authorisation form - I'm sure you know the one I mean. That's really all I'm asking.

cx6

noone can set up a DD without being an authorised institution and having a SUN number - ie some ramdom person couldn't

they have not taken any money and in any case you are protected by the dd guarantee

Mr.Boy

cx6 said:

noone can set up a DD without being an authorised institution and having a SUN number - ie some ramdom person couldn't

Aha, that clears it up then I guess. Thanks.

Daliah

Mr.Boy said:

sheramber said:

But you say you have a pre installation account. What was involved in setting that up?  Obviously you gave them your bank details. 

A guy phoned me back and told me how pre-installation works and that I'd get billed from the day after installation (TBA). He took my details but no mention of DD was made.

My query is as much with the bank as anything else. Let's say I buy something from you and pay you via electronic banking. I have your sort code and account number, what is to stop me setting up a DD on your account? That's why I thought banks had to use a standard DD authorisation form - I'm sure you know the one I mean. That's really all I'm asking.

Sounds you have given your verbal agreement to the installation, and to paying for the installation on completion of the installation. You possibly also agreed to pay an ongoing charge for the service. That the money will be taken by DD is a technicality but it's the only way a company can take money from your account. There is no need for you to fill in any forms to have a DD set up, and there's no such thing as a standard DD authorisation form, even though some firms and organisations might still use a DD mandate form.

Did you not ask why they need your bank details before you gave them to them? How did you intend to pay if not by DD?

eskbanker

Mr.Boy said:

My query is as much with the bank as anything else. Let's say I buy something from you and pay you via electronic banking. I have your sort code and account number, what is to stop me setting up a DD on your account? That's why I thought banks had to use a standard DD authorisation form - I'm sure you know the one I mean. That's really all I'm asking.

No, it isn't a requirement to use a standard piece of paper or electronic form - all organisations authorised to take payment by DD will have their own method of capturing the relevant details to forward to your bank, although there is inevitably a fairly common set of data that needs to be recorded in order to set up the mandate.  So, anyone can set up a DD if they have access to your sort code and account number, but it's only authorised bodies that can be the recipients of the payments, so the worst a random stranger can do is to set up a DD that pays an organisation, which will typically entail setting up an account of some sort.

The most well-known example of this is the Jeremy Clarkson incident, whereby he defiantly published his sort code and account number in the belief that nobody could misuse them.  Someone looking to prove a point successfully set up a DD on his account that paid a charity - Clarkson could have used the DD guarantee to get the money refunded to him but chose not to....

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/jeremy-clarkson-victim-of-id-fraud-after-publishing-bank-details/

Mr.Boy

Daliah said:

Sounds you have given your verbal agreement to the installation, and to paying for the installation on completion of the installation. You possibly also agreed to pay an ongoing charge for the service. That the money will be taken by DD is a technicality but it's the only way a company can take money from your account. There is no need for you to fill in any forms to have a DD set up, and there's no such thing as a standard DD authorisation form, even though some firms and organisations might still use a DD mandate form.

Did you not ask why they need your bank details before you gave them to them? How did you intend to pay if not by DD?

I did intend to pay by DD, I just expected I might get a form to authorise it. I thought the DD mandate form you mention was mandatory - clearly that's the part I had wrong.

All cleared up and above board Thanks for your help.

booneruk

Mr.Boy said:

 I thought I had to explicitly authorise any new DD with a standard Agreement form? Is that not the case, if I have your bank details can I set up a DD without telling you?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm