Small relative accidentally spent over £1700 in apple store purchases using my Grandma's card!

Sandtree

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The angle to pursue with Apple is that the minor is not legally old enough to enter into a paid contract.  

Thats not true, a minor is perfectly entitled to enter into almost any contract the issue is the contract is unenforcable against them unless its for "essentials" (food etc). Given the imbalance most companies will choose not to allow minors to enter into contract rather than enter into something which they are obliged to perform but the counterparty isnt.

Were that not the case no kid could spend their pocket money on sweets/toys in the local cornershop... shops there are willing to enter into a contract with a minor because they get the cash up front.

The only thing you can do is appeal to Apple's sympathies but unfortunately there have been lots of high profile cases and I would imagine there are a fair few adults that have intentionally (or drunkenly) run up similar bills and then tried to blame a random (or fictitious) kid for doing so.

If Apple won't reimburse, you could try the developers and if not then it comes back to an intrafamily discussion most likely.

The only other possible option is to report it to the card issuer as fraudulant use, the kid is 9 so other than a talking to by the old bill there is no chance of any further action because they are under 11. The thing that may make that fail is if the T&Cs when giving the card creates a CPA that authorises all future payments.

Joshuaclay

Thanks for the information, it's looking more like this is potentially a fraud, I think people sometimes buy in game currency to then re-sell at a slightly lower price online and it's fairly untraceable. We've spoken with Apple anyway, their number: 0800 048 0408

We're hoping to hear back within the next 48 hours

powerful_Rogue

Joshuaclay said:

Thanks for the information, it's looking more like this is potentially a fraud, I think people sometimes buy in game currency to then re-sell at a slightly lower price online and it's fairly untraceable. We've spoken with Apple anyway, their number: 0800 048 0408

We're hoping to hear back within the next 48 hours

What makes you think this is fraud all of a sudden?

emmajones1976

powerful_Rogue said:

Joshuaclay said:

Thanks for the information, it's looking more like this is potentially a fraud, I think people sometimes buy in game currency to then re-sell at a slightly lower price online and it's fairly untraceable. We've spoken with Apple anyway, their number: 0800 048 0408

We're hoping to hear back within the next 48 hours

What makes you think this is fraud all of a sudden?

Maybe he is believing the word of a nine year old?

Sandtree

Joshuaclay said:

Thanks for the information, it's looking more like this is potentially a fraud, I think people sometimes buy in game currency to then re-sell at a slightly lower price online and it's fairly untraceable. We've spoken with Apple anyway, their number: 0800 048 0408

We're hoping to hear back within the next 48 hours

Just be aware that reporting your family member to the police for fraud does tend to change family dynamics even if no action is ultimately taken... maybe the spending itself has already broken the family but its worth thinking about before acting.

We deal with similar issues in the insurance world where teenagers "borrow" parents/relatives cars and crash them... having to deal with both the parent/relative as the policyholder and the young driver about covering the injury claims etc over the next couple of years the hatchet isnt buried quickly.

unforeseen

Sandtree said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The angle to pursue with Apple is that the minor is not legally old enough to enter into a paid contract.  

Thats not true, a minor is perfectly entitled to enter into almost any contract the issue is the contract is unenforcable against them unless its for "essentials" (food etc). Given the imbalance most companies will choose not to allow minors to enter into contract rather than enter into something which they are obliged to perform but the counterparty isnt.

Were that not the case no kid could spend their pocket money on sweets/toys in the local cornershop... shops there are willing to enter into a contract with a minor because they get the cash up front.

The only thing you can do is appeal to Apple's sympathies but unfortunately there have been lots of high profile cases and I would imagine there are a fair few adults that have intentionally (or drunkenly) run up similar bills and then tried to blame a random (or fictitious) kid for doing so.

If Apple won't reimburse, you could try the developers and if not then it comes back to an intrafamily discussion most likely.

The only other possible option is to report it to the card issuer as fraudulant use, the kid is 9 so other than a talking to by the old bill there is no chance of any further action because they are under 11. The thing that may make that fail is if the T&Cs when giving the card creates a CPA that authorises all future payments.

As it was using the grandma's account then that is who the contract is with, not the year old. How were they to know that an adult was allowing a minor to use their account? 

jonesey1985

Joshuaclay said:

Thanks for the information, it's looking more like this is potentially a fraud, I think people sometimes buy in game currency to then re-sell at a slightly lower price online and it's fairly untraceable. We've spoken with Apple anyway, their number: 0800 048 0408

We're hoping to hear back within the next 48 hours

FIFA Points are not tradeable, there is no incentive for a hacker to purchase FIFA points.  Although you don't mention what the other game is (and I suspect like most games those in-game currencies will not be tradeable either) it would be rather bizarre behaviour for a hacker to buy some tradeable currency and some not. Why would they bother burning cash for no gain?  They'd surely entirely purchase tradeable currency, no?  I see you later posted that the other game is Brawl Stars, which also has non-tradeable currency.

Sandtree

unforeseen said:

Sandtree said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The angle to pursue with Apple is that the minor is not legally old enough to enter into a paid contract.  

Thats not true, a minor is perfectly entitled to enter into almost any contract the issue is the contract is unenforcable against them unless its for "essentials" (food etc). Given the imbalance most companies will choose not to allow minors to enter into contract rather than enter into something which they are obliged to perform but the counterparty isnt.

Were that not the case no kid could spend their pocket money on sweets/toys in the local cornershop... shops there are willing to enter into a contract with a minor because they get the cash up front.

The only thing you can do is appeal to Apple's sympathies but unfortunately there have been lots of high profile cases and I would imagine there are a fair few adults that have intentionally (or drunkenly) run up similar bills and then tried to blame a random (or fictitious) kid for doing so.

If Apple won't reimburse, you could try the developers and if not then it comes back to an intrafamily discussion most likely.

The only other possible option is to report it to the card issuer as fraudulant use, the kid is 9 so other than a talking to by the old bill there is no chance of any further action because they are under 11. The thing that may make that fail is if the T&Cs when giving the card creates a CPA that authorises all future payments.

As it was using the grandma's account then that is who the contract is with, not the year old. How were they to know that an adult was allowing a minor to use their account? 

They said they used their card on the 9 year old's device... given its clearly not a parent and presumably not who the child lives with I would assume that its not the card holders Apple account.

However, age verification is very difficult online hence underage people manage to signup for and obtain services for things they are too young for.

unforeseen

Sandtree said:

unforeseen said:

Sandtree said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The angle to pursue with Apple is that the minor is not legally old enough to enter into a paid contract.  

Thats not true, a minor is perfectly entitled to enter into almost any contract the issue is the contract is unenforcable against them unless its for "essentials" (food etc). Given the imbalance most companies will choose not to allow minors to enter into contract rather than enter into something which they are obliged to perform but the counterparty isnt.

Were that not the case no kid could spend their pocket money on sweets/toys in the local cornershop... shops there are willing to enter into a contract with a minor because they get the cash up front.

The only thing you can do is appeal to Apple's sympathies but unfortunately there have been lots of high profile cases and I would imagine there are a fair few adults that have intentionally (or drunkenly) run up similar bills and then tried to blame a random (or fictitious) kid for doing so.

If Apple won't reimburse, you could try the developers and if not then it comes back to an intrafamily discussion most likely.

The only other possible option is to report it to the card issuer as fraudulant use, the kid is 9 so other than a talking to by the old bill there is no chance of any further action because they are under 11. The thing that may make that fail is if the T&Cs when giving the card creates a CPA that authorises all future payments.

As it was using the grandma's account then that is who the contract is with, not the year old. How were they to know that an adult was allowing a minor to use their account? 

They said they used their card on the 9 year old's device... given its clearly not a parent and presumably not who the child lives with I would assume that its not the card holders Apple account.

However, age verification is very difficult online hence underage people manage to signup for and obtain services for things they are too young for.

From page 1

Apple platform, across 2 games or so (apparently it was two that were purchased) FIFA and one other. The Apple account is owned by my Grandma

jon81uk

This is why setting up family groups and parental controls is very important. 

Grandma probably wasn’t aware of the risks but they should never have made the purchase. Setting up a family group means every time a child wants to purchase the parents is asked for authorisation.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201089