Forced to take a Smartmeter but will be worse off for it

dbks

Oliver27 said:

I received an email from Scottish Power telling me I need to book a smartmeter upgrade with the following;
"We urgently need to upgrade your electricity meter as it's now been in use for more than 15 years. If you have a dual fuel account with us, we'll upgrade your gas meter too. Replacing your meters will help to ensure they're safe and efficient for years to come."

I am on a clock type economy7 meter with my offpeak times 10:30pm - 12:30am & 2:30am - 7:30pm. I am really hesitant to have a smart meter as I hear the 
offpeak is 12:00am - 7:00am and I like to do some washing and or drying at 10:30pm due to the offpeak rate being much lower than the day time rate.

How long will I be able to ignore this for, can they get court orders etc to change it?

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/smart-meters/

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter


E7 times are set by your DNO, not by your supplier and/or what meter they fit.
-although with a smart meter, your supplier can offer you tariffs not available to those with non-smart meters
- also even if you have a non-smart meter, your actual E7 times may not comply with the DNO's set times if the meter clock is incorrect. The supplier is not obligated to correct the meter clock.
- of course, if you have a replacement meter, then the meter clock time may differ from your current meter if your current meter clock is incorrect.

[Deleted User]

wild666 said:

The only benefit of a smart meter is that you can get your readings in 30 minute segments if the utility provider provides that option otherwise it's just like your old meter. 

If you really want to save money on energy usage then turn as much as possible off at the wall socket, that's TV, DVD, games consoles, surround sound systems, charging leads, stereo's, cookers, washers, microwaves, smart speakers, when not in use.
I do that and my daily kWh usage has dropped from 6 kWh to between 3 & 3.5 kWh plus reduce the heating temperature down to as low as 18 degrees. All that could save hundreds of pounds per year.

There are numerous benefits to both consumers and the industry from having smart meters fitted. For example, I am in discussion with my DNO about the Grid voltage supplied to my property which is worryingly close to 253 volts at times. I can monitor the voltage by checking my smart meter and the DNO has access to this information remotely. Previously, they would have to send out an engineer to fit a check monitor.

Future smart tariffs will be based on times of use, not just the amount of kWhs/year used. Historical data can be extracted from the meter, with the consumer’s permission by a registered DCC User,  to determine which time of use tariff will be the cheapest going forward.

At this point, the critics will leap in and say that suppliers can disconnect smart meters at will when demand is high and supply inadequate. They could but they won’t without either a Court Order or the consumer’s permission. Some countries now offer power limited tariffs. The consumer agrees to, say, not to exceed a 5kW load during peak times for a cheaper tariff. The supplier reserves the right to disconnect the supply if the consumer ignores a raft of messages about excessive load. Supply is reconnected by calling a dedicated phone number. Frequent breaches of the contract will result in a tariff change. 

https://www.endesa.com/en/blogs/endesa-s-blog/time-bands-light-valley-punta-llano

Norman_Castle

Is there really a difference in off peak hours based on meter type? Finding out would be a good place to start.

MWT

dbks said:

Oliver27 said:

I received an email from Scottish Power telling me I need to book a smartmeter upgrade with the following;
"We urgently need to upgrade your electricity meter as it's now been in use for more than 15 years. If you have a dual fuel account with us, we'll upgrade your gas meter too. Replacing your meters will help to ensure they're safe and efficient for years to come."

I am on a clock type economy7 meter with my offpeak times 10:30pm - 12:30am & 2:30am - 7:30pm. I am really hesitant to have a smart meter as I hear the 
offpeak is 12:00am - 7:00am and I like to do some washing and or drying at 10:30pm due to the offpeak rate being much lower than the day time rate.

How long will I be able to ignore this for, can they get court orders etc to change it?

E7 times are set by your DNO, not by your supplier and/or what meter they fit.

There are traditional times for each region but the supplier can choose different times as long as the times they pick are reflected in the settlement code attached to their account, so the definitive source of information on which times apply to E7 for a smart meter is always going to be the supplier, not the DNO.

The key difference is that with traditional meters the switching between peak and off-peak is handled by local clock or a radio based teleswitch, with a smart meter it is under the control of the supplier to set and adjust the time period.  

Swipe

roddydogs said:

Both my meters are at least 30 yrs old, how can they force you to have a sm?

At my previous house I had an old 1970s E7 mechanical meter replaced with a single rate non smart digital meter. 12 months later my supplier sent me a letter saying they were coming to replace it. I responded back saying there must be some mistake as it was only replaced 12 months ago and sent them the serial number to confirm. They replied in no uncertain terms that if I refused the meter change they would raise a warrant to come and replace it. So I agreed for an identical meter to replace the 12 month old one with just 2200 units on it. The meter installer agreed it was complete madness.

Oliver27

Thanks to everyone for the input. I called them (Scottish Power) rather than trying to book on line. They said I cant have Smartmeter anyway with Economy 7 and they will contact me again in the future and didn't want to do anything with my current meter. Doesn't instill much confidence they know what they are doing, shall see how it develops.

Curiousgirl1

You’re sorted then 😀. 

Some companies don’t fit E7 smart meters if the signal in the area is not great. 

Brie

[Deleted User] said:

There are numerous benefits to both consumers and the industry from having smart meters fitted. For example, I am in discussion with my DNO about the Grid voltage supplied to my property which is worryingly close to 253 volts at times. I can monitor the voltage by checking my smart meter and the DNO has access to this information remotely. Previously, they would have to send out an engineer to fit a check monitor.

Future smart tariffs will be based on times of use, not just the amount of kWhs/year used. 

I still don't get this I'm afraid.  Ok - if it means a tariff can be found to give me a better deal, that's fine.  But cynical me thinks that a company isn't necessarily going to want to do that if it minimises their profits.  As for having one to see how much energy we're using - well why?  We're not going to cook dinner at 3 am.  We're not going to turn the heat off (I wish we could but I'm overruled)

And what's worrying about being close to 253 volts?  DNO?

Carrot007

Brie said:

And what's worrying about being close to 253 volts?  DNO?

Nothing, however 253 is the upper limit of tolerance.

DNO = distribution network operator, them that runs the supply infrastructure. (your supplier is but a middle man moving paper (although often companies are in both side).

[Deleted User]

Brie said:

[Deleted User] said:

There are numerous benefits to both consumers and the industry from having smart meters fitted. For example, I am in discussion with my DNO about the Grid voltage supplied to my property which is worryingly close to 253 volts at times. I can monitor the voltage by checking my smart meter and the DNO has access to this information remotely. Previously, they would have to send out an engineer to fit a check monitor.

Future smart tariffs will be based on times of use, not just the amount of kWhs/year used. 

I still don't get this I'm afraid.  Ok - if it means a tariff can be found to give me a better deal, that's fine.  But cynical me thinks that a company isn't necessarily going to want to do that if it minimises their profits.  As for having one to see how much energy we're using - well why?  We're not going to cook dinner at 3 am.  We're not going to turn the heat off (I wish we could but I'm overruled)

And what's worrying about being close to 253 volts?  DNO?

Yes, 253 volts is the upper limit. Running devices built for 240 volts at a higher voltage can lead to premature failure. 

Increasingly, we will see all suppliers offering just time of use tariffs. No one is going to force anybody to cook a meal at 3 am but without historical profiled smart meter data how will consumers choose the cheapest whole market tariff for their usage and time of usage? For example, this is data from my smart meter for yesterday.