HelpParty Wall Dispute

T_J_A_8691

We have given party wall notices to both neighbours regarding steel beam into cavity wall for loft conversion.

We gave this out on the 06.11.2021- the owner who rents out the next door property spoke as though it was the first he had heard of the planning/party wall act etc.

Today we received an email to say he doesn't oppose the loft conversion (planning has already been granted) but he has already instructed party wall surveyor on the 01.11.2021.

Where does that leave us? if we decide to no longer use the steel beams is he liable for any work the surveyor has already undertaken?Do we have to let him know we are going to continue with the work for the surveyor to be contacted?

Do we now have to instruct our own surveyor or would it be best to use the one he has appointed( although reviews are awful and many complaining of ambulance chasing type service)
How much are we roughly looking at for this?
Also my understanding is that the act only covers the actual  work on the party wall, so in essence only the installation of the beam into the cavity wall?

We would appreciated any advise that can be given.

grumbler

A really bad news is that AFAIK (and I'll be happy to stand corrected) it's you who will pay for the neighbour's surveyor. To avoid this you should have discussed this with neighbours well in advance and let them chose one surveyor for all of you (that you would have paid for).

Cambella86

Good morning grumbler,

We have given them notice, we are no where near starting works we have just received the planning consent.

How could i have avoided this?..The owner had already signed up to a surveyor before we had  got hold of his address and went to personally speak to him serve our notice.

I realise we will be paying for his surveyor although he has instructed a `London based company with the most horrendous  reviews 37% are avoid/do not use etc.

I was after advise on how to take this forward from here if any one has any suggestions they would be gratefully received.

Doozergirl

It sounds like he has been ambulance chased and you really do want to avoid them.  They write to the neighbours of planning applicants without even knowing if the Act applies - it's like machine gun fire - spray enough bullets and you'll hit a target.  

Do you get on with next door at all?   Can you pull your architect in for a quick initial chat about the plans and what the PWA entails and also show them those reviews? No one wants to deal with a 37% rating.  Ideally, you just want to reassure them that whatever happens, you're always responsible for fixing any issues, that this only covers the insertion of the steel and just get the signature off them.   

I would try to influence it so that if they do want a surveyor, that you agree to use the same one but not one with a 37% satisfaction rating!   They can pick, just pick sensibly.  The PWA isn't like buying a house where you need two solicitors because you have conflicting interests.  A PWS is only interested in conforming with the Act so there's no argument to be had.  Maybe you want lots of eyes when you're knocking down and building up huge commercial property in a city, but for one steel into a house wall? One surveyor is plenty. 

Yes, are correct that the only work that applies as far as next door and the PWA goes is major work on the party wall.  Insertions into the wall (like a steel rather than wiring or pipes), cutting back (removing a chimney breast for example) or adding to the party wall.   It isn't the entire job.  

Cambella86

Good afternoon Doozergirl,

Thank you for your reply, i have emailed him this morning asking if we can meet up, he doesn't live next door so its a little harder.

I have asked that if he really needs a party wall surveyor then could it be  local firm of his choice as i have stated we would prefer to use just one but we wont be using those people with such poor reviews.
I have told him that we are legally responsible for his surveyors - but i have reminded him that by law this is reasonable fees.
In his email he let us know his concerns which are really minor-although i appreciate to him they could be massive- ive offered for the Builder when we arrange one -to speak to him and ive said he can chat with the Architect now.
He is worried how they open the gap for the steel and wha happens if any debris falls into the cavity wall and how they will it effect the sound proofing if it does.

Just awaiting a reply.

I have said that we will confirm if we are going to go ahead with the beams- as i believe we aren't liable until we let him know that we will be continuing after his dissent, do you know if this is correct? we would potentially rather go down the Telebeam route than waste unknown amounts of money on these type of  surveyors.( i would rather pay the extra for the beams)

Thank you 

Doozergirl

Telebeam are great.  They're for modern trussed roofs where the other option is to lift the entire roof off.   Is that what you have?   

What's the current plan? Have you engaged the structural engineer? 

Working_Mum

I answer calls for a PWS and I always tell callers that he is there to "represent the wall" and ensure the Law is complied with. It's a nice ice breaker and seems to put people's mind at rest that the process doesn't have to be combative and expensive.
Good luck, keeping a calm head and open communication often wins out in this type of situation.

Belenus

Working_Mum said:

I answer calls for a PWS and I always tell callers that he is there to "represent the wall" and ensure the Law is complied with. It's a nice ice breaker and seems to put people's mind at rest that the process doesn't have to be combative and expensive.
Good luck, keeping a calm head and open communication often wins out in this type of situation.

Can I refuse to pay the PWS's bill and tell him that the wall will pay?

Doozergirl

Working_Mum said:

I answer calls for a PWS and I always tell callers that he is there to "represent the wall" and ensure the Law is complied with. It's a nice ice breaker and seems to put people's mind at rest that the process doesn't have to be combative and expensive.
Good luck, keeping a calm head and open communication often wins out in this type of situation.

Great phrase.  I'm stealing that if you don't mind!! 

T_J_A_8691

Hi Doozergirl,

We have a Trussed roof, slightly out of the ordinary as we already have a steel beam in the roof.

We have the just received the Engineers calculations.

Our neighbour has agreed to go with a local PWS(joint) to try to keep costs down but still wants one for peace of mind.

At least i have seen good reviews with this one who was recommended- at a cost though.. looking at in the region of £1600-£2200 max  if all goes well .

GDB2222

The first I heard of my neighbour’s planning application was yesterday, when I got two letters from ambulance chasing PW surveyors. I'm quite impressed with their systems, as the PP application was dated 8 Nov, and the two letters arrived on 11 Nov.