Amazon return issue - potentially destroyed return item

bigfrankblue

Hi all.

I wanted to say that maybe I've been lucky and never once had a significant issue in my many years of Amazon shopping. That was until this week!

So, I'd purchased a film light recently (I work in TV), which was identical to one that I'd bought previously from Amazon, a good 18 months ago. When the new item arrived, it seemed to emit a noisy electrical buzz, so we got out our original unit to compare it with and quickly decided the new item had some sort of bad internal power supply. So I asked one of my colleagues to package it up and I arranged to send it back.

What eventually transpired is that we sent the wrong one back (our original perfect one) So, on chasing the progress, I got a very heavy-handed set of comms back from Amazon talking about limiting/closing the account - explaining about breaking the codes of practice. I explained it had been a simple error on our end in packaging up the wrong one, I explained the situation and said we're more than happy to return the other unit and for Amazon to send the original one back.

So far so good, that was until Amazon said I couldn't have the original light back. When I asked why not, they said they lack the infrastructure to promise it would be returned, it might have already been destroyed, and that if it can be found, I might get it returned within 4 weeks but it was extremely non-committal. 

I'm a pretty level-headed person, so I tried a couple of times both on the phone and also via Amazon chat to get a resolution and I'm told I have to deal with buyer returns over email. When communicating with them and trying to seek reassurance around the original one being returned, they totally ignore this point about returning the original item and just focus on facilitating the return of the other unit. The emails are generic in tone and just ignore my request.

The product itself retails for £150, it's not a super expensive bit of kit but it's frustrating to lose that money. There just seems to be no point of escalation. I spend a good £2k a month via Amazon, as I use it for work also and it all feels very off.

Any advice would be massively appreciated. 

JJ_Egan

Is this a business you bought for ??

cx6

Very annoying - I bet you are kicking yourself!

Legally, Amazon is within its rights not to refund the new light until you return it.

With regards to the old light, although it is annoying, I would suspect that a company the size of Amazon would just not have the processes in place to return your item - returns are unpacked in huge huge return centres handling thousands of items, examined, and either put back for sale or - in the few cases where something is wrong - just binned.

bigfrankblue

JJ_Egan said:

Is this a business you bought for ??

It's my personal Amazon account, I just use it for business purchases frequently. 

bigfrankblue

cx6 said:

Very annoying - I bet you are kicking yourself!

Legally, Amazon is within its rights not to refund the new light until you return it.

With regards to the old light, although it is annoying, I would suspect that a company the size of Amazon would just not have the processes in place to return your item - returns are unpacked, examined, and either put back for sale or - in the few cases where something is wrong - just binned.

I really should have double-checked the serial numbers, not helped by the fact they were both identical, but that is on me. My worry is now sending back the other light and them having an issue with it. I'm out of pocket £150 but my worry is sending the other light and being out of pocket £300

soolin

bigfrankblue said:

JJ_Egan said:

Is this a business you bought for ??

It's my personal Amazon account, I just use it for business purchases frequently. 

Regardless of your account this was a B2B transaction and as such will have different t and Cs should Amazon delve too closely into it. 

Unfortunately there is a well known scam, in fact I was watching a YouTube video about it last week , where buyers buy a new item to replace an old one and then ‘accidentally’ send the old one back when they reject the purchase- Amazon are known for not checking 100% of their returns so these have a fair to good chance of just being shipped to a liquidation department and not noticed. Your issue will be that Amazon will almost certainly have placed you in this category so any goodwill will have been lost, sending back the other one is a gamble, but I’m not sure what other options you have. 

bigfrankblue

soolin said:

bigfrankblue said:

JJ_Egan said:

Is this a business you bought for ??

It's my personal Amazon account, I just use it for business purchases frequently. 

Regardless of your account this was a B2B transaction and as such will have different t and Cs should Amazon delve too closely into it. 

Unfortunately there is a well known scam, in fact I was watching a YouTube video about it last week , where buyers buy a new item to replace an old one and then ‘accidentally’ send the old one back when they reject the purchase- Amazon are known for not checking 100% of their returns so these have a fair to good chance of just being shipped to a liquidation department and not noticed. Your issue will be that Amazon will almost certainly have placed you in this category so any goodwill will have been lost, sending back the other one is a gamble, but I’m not sure what other options you have. 

Well, I guess I just keep the newer, potentially defective unit and stay £150 out of pocket. What does annoy me is when the item was scanned back - it does say that it is the right item, all be it a serial number mismatch. It's not as if I've bought an iPhone and posted back a brick - though I do fully appreciate that people do probably game the system and act fraudulently. From a legal standpoint, given I've paid for the light and they've not refunded me - surely it's still my possession/property at this point?

soolin

bigfrankblue said:

soolin said:

bigfrankblue said:

JJ_Egan said:

Is this a business you bought for ??

It's my personal Amazon account, I just use it for business purchases frequently. 

Regardless of your account this was a B2B transaction and as such will have different t and Cs should Amazon delve too closely into it. 

Unfortunately there is a well known scam, in fact I was watching a YouTube video about it last week , where buyers buy a new item to replace an old one and then ‘accidentally’ send the old one back when they reject the purchase- Amazon are known for not checking 100% of their returns so these have a fair to good chance of just being shipped to a liquidation department and not noticed. Your issue will be that Amazon will almost certainly have placed you in this category so any goodwill will have been lost, sending back the other one is a gamble, but I’m not sure what other options you have. 

Well, I guess I just keep the newer, potentially defective unit and stay £150 out of pocket. What does annoy me is when the item was scanned back - it does say that it is the right item, all be it a serial number mismatch. It's not as if I've bought an iPhone and posted back a brick - though I do fully appreciate that people do probably game the system and act fraudulently. From a legal standpoint, given I've paid for the light and they've not refunded me - surely it's still my possession/property at this point?

Technically I suspect you are right , but I would be worried about a wider implication. Also you sent them unsolicited an item that was not theirs, so it is up to you to arrange for that item to get back to you safely, at your own cost. As this is a business that might prove difficult for you to arrange, they aren’t under any obligation to return your item themselves , but I believe they have an obligation to keep it safe for you to arrange for it to be collected- perhaps someone else could confirm that. It would be the same if Amazon sent you an item  out of the blue, you couldn’t keep it but you would have to make it available for them to recover. 

You currently risk your account being closed for fraud , but they may or may not go down that route, if you push too hard and start making accusations Amazon might decide to take a tougher stance . I’m sure others Can advise you in more depth and with more accuracy, but personally I would be going ahead cautiously with this . At the moment you have been charged for the new one which you have , you either risk sending it back for a refund and losing your original one as well, or just keep the new one and still try and recover the old one by offering to pay for its return. I’m sure there are other options that others might think of.

soolin

Just to show you why Amazon might fight this if pushed, this is an article about an EU scam from a couple of years back that made Amazon up their game, there are plenty of other similar stories if you google including returning an older product instead of the new one

https://tamebay.com/2019/08/biggest-amazon-fraud-ever-in-eu-discovered.html

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can advise but regardless of consumer or business isn't Amazon an involuntary bailee in this situation with a duty to take reasonable care of the goods and see them restored?

Manxman_in_exile

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can advise but regardless of consumer or business isn't Amazon an involuntary bailee in this situation with a duty to take reasonable care of the goods and see them restored?

I think that's right and the OP needs to try to explain this to Amazon - they can't just bin it because they thought it "might" have been a scam.  No doubt Amazon see it as not being worth their while to investigate this sort of situation too deeply and just dispose of the item.  But it being "not worth their while" doesn't mean they are entitled to destroy another person's property.  If that is going to be their business model, Amazon need to recognise that they will sometimes have to compensate people if they just bin their property.

But I suspect the OP may find it difficult to explain this to Amazon in a way that they understand and accept.

If he can't persuade them, he'll have to sue them - if he wants to go down that route...

Personally, I think I'd blame the work colleague who sent off the old one.  Couldn't they tell them apart?  (Maybe they couldn't but it seems a particularly stupid thing to do.  I'd have thought a basic check was to make sure you were returning the correct item in the first place.  If this is B2B rather than a personal or consumer purchase, I think I'd just bear the loss and take it as a lesson learned.)