Amazon return

RFW

raspo said:

Yeah, sorry to give the impression I am taking legal action. I am just thinking ahead. It's true that I am basing on anecdotal experiences of others - but I think it's more likely that the anecdotal experiences are very similar. 

Amazon have already essentially said that if I cared about my merchandise, I could have specifically exempted it from their policy which is to ship things with almost no compensation cover.

I'm not sure what else to say other than your suggestion, which is that I have not received my item in return, and when I do, I will be most happy to refund. Then they are going to say again that I can claim my £20 from Hermes and that I could have exempted my item from their policy which default is that my merchandise is in peril. The buyer is ultimately going to file an AtoZ because they returned the item via amazon. They won't think it's their fault Hermes lost the parcel. 

Isn't the whole point of A to Z that the buyer will never be out of pocket? Who is the other pocket? Amazon can just take money away from me. 

The only thing to stop any of this happening is being able to say something to them to convince them that they shouldn't do what they normally do, and I can't think what that would be, apart from the fact that of course I don't agree to my goods being put at risk by default because that's better for amazon. But that's how their solicitors write their policy.

What would you do? Keep repeating that you are most happy to give a refund when the goods are returned? And then figure out what to do next when they take the money an A to Z?

I agree the whole opting out seems wrong. I'm a big Amazon seller but, as I said earlier, that probably won't really ever apply to me so I haven't really taken more than a cursory look at what that's about.

On AtoZ claims the guarantee  is that the customer will never be out of pocket, that isn't always at the expense of the seller. Sometimes Amazon pay out of their own pocket.

I've had customers claim to have returned something and I never received the returns, as there was no proof of return there was no refund. Your case may be different but it essentially relies on the same thing, whether there is proof of sending and, amongst other things, that it was satisfactorily packed. Anything Amazon have told you, so far, about compensation and opting in is irrelevant, the only people at Amazon who matter are those who would judge a refund. As I mentioned earlier, a polite Tweet with a bit of information in (eg "Am I likely to be £280 out of pocket because Amazon opted me into a poorly insured return service that appears to have been lost by the courier, can you help?") should get you talking to the right people. So far you'll have had a computer generated response and one from someone in a remote call centre with access to a few standard cut and paste replies.

raspo

Amazon has written and said that if I don't refund the buyer then they may file an AtoZ and then that will take its route, although I may disagree and can appeal (which sounds like they think the buyer will win). Otherwise their view is that I can avail myself of the refund from Hermes, and that this is in accordance w their policy, so it sounds like my thinking ahead to legal arguments was not a complete waste of time, as it looks like nothing will happen with the seller help people. 

raspo

RFW said:

raspo said:

Yeah, sorry to give the impression I am taking legal action. I am just thinking ahead. It's true that I am basing on anecdotal experiences of others - but I think it's more likely that the anecdotal experiences are very similar. 

Amazon have already essentially said that if I cared about my merchandise, I could have specifically exempted it from their policy which is to ship things with almost no compensation cover.

I'm not sure what else to say other than your suggestion, which is that I have not received my item in return, and when I do, I will be most happy to refund. Then they are going to say again that I can claim my £20 from Hermes and that I could have exempted my item from their policy which default is that my merchandise is in peril. The buyer is ultimately going to file an AtoZ because they returned the item via amazon. They won't think it's their fault Hermes lost the parcel. 

Isn't the whole point of A to Z that the buyer will never be out of pocket? Who is the other pocket? Amazon can just take money away from me. 

The only thing to stop any of this happening is being able to say something to them to convince them that they shouldn't do what they normally do, and I can't think what that would be, apart from the fact that of course I don't agree to my goods being put at risk by default because that's better for amazon. But that's how their solicitors write their policy.

What would you do? Keep repeating that you are most happy to give a refund when the goods are returned? And then figure out what to do next when they take the money an A to Z?

I agree the whole opting out seems wrong. I'm a big Amazon seller but, as I said earlier, that probably won't really ever apply to me so I haven't really taken more than a cursory look at what that's about.

On AtoZ claims the guarantee  is that the customer will never be out of pocket, that isn't always at the expense of the seller. Sometimes Amazon pay out of their own pocket.

I've had customers claim to have returned something and I never received the returns, as there was no proof of return there was no refund. Your case may be different but it essentially relies on the same thing, whether there is proof of sending and, amongst other things, that it was satisfactorily packed. Anything Amazon have told you, so far, about compensation and opting in is irrelevant, the only people at Amazon who matter are those who would judge a refund. As I mentioned earlier, a polite Tweet with a bit of information in (eg "Am I likely to be £280 out of pocket because Amazon opted me into a poorly insured return service that appears to have been lost by the courier, can you help?") should get you talking to the right people. So far you'll have had a computer generated response and one from someone in a remote call centre with access to a few standard cut and paste replies.

I did get in touch on Twitter, as was told to fill a form so they could identify the case. After I did they told me seller support was helping me, as it should be - so that was unfortunately the end of that.

Then they pointed me to their terms, but you know, I sell a few items a month. I can't spend ages reading amazon's voluminous terms, but of course neither do I expect that they are going to induce a buyer to send property of mine at my risk in an underinsured state. I will chat to my solicitor mate, and he may say that since they emailed us to notify us of this change I am out of luck. But who knows - he might say that amazon can't go sending other people's goods at risk of loss and expect to us to opt out if we don't like it. I usually send old academic books, and if amazon wants to suspend me if I send a letter before claim, etc. it's not a big deal.

I will not refund and let the poor buyer go through the system. It's unfortunate for them and for me - amazon is the beneficiary of dealing with things this way, and then I will appeal and do what I can. Who knows? Maybe amazon will pay, but I am thinking it's unlikely. 

(There is proof of sending as the buyer got a receipt when they dropped off the item. The issue is that amazon negotiates a contract with Hermes to send goods that are not sufficiently protected, and then ropes sellers into that contract via their terms and conditions. The real problem is that people don't realise that amazon is sending sellers' good in an underinsured way.)

BelMalinois

The problem is though that the new returns process was communicated to all sellers before it came into operation and did warn about exempting high value item. Tamebay is a useful site that summarises issues and the link to their take on the new procedure is here:

https://tamebay.com/2021/06/amazon-prepaid-return-labels-mandatory-for-all-returns.html

If you only sell on Amazon occasionally you need to remain aware of ongoing changes. The Amazon forums are very useful for this and highlight quickly any issues that arise with changes.

The response you've received about claiming £20 from Hermes is correct. You'll also get the postage cost refunded. Hermes is currently the only return option with Amazon as there's currently a problem with the Royal Mail (sellers unable to download VAT invoices for the labels). Hermes lose way more parcels than the Royal Mail.

raspo

BelMalinois said:

The problem is though that the new returns process was communicated to all sellers before it came into operation and did warn about exempting high value item. Tamebay is a useful site that summarises issues and the link to their take on the new procedure is here:

https://tamebay.com/2021/06/amazon-prepaid-return-labels-mandatory-for-all-returns.html

If you only sell on Amazon occasionally you need to remain aware of ongoing changes. The Amazon forums are very useful for this and highlight quickly any issues that arise with changes.

The response you've received about claiming £20 from Hermes is correct. You'll also get the postage cost refunded. Hermes is currently the only return option with Amazon as there's currently a problem with the Royal Mail (sellers unable to download VAT invoices for the labels). Hermes lose way more parcels than the Royal Mail.

It will be interesting to see what my solicitor mate says. He's quite good w these things, and it's not as though amazon is going to pay a solicitor if I lose the AtoZ and send them a letter before claim. So we will see. It's a shame being at the whimsy of a company who can charge a percentage of the value of your goods (so they know they are valuable) but then send them with almost no compensation cover when they have nothing to lose (returns where they are going to return fees anyway).

Spoonie_Turtle

raspo said:

BelMalinois said:

The problem is though that the new returns process was communicated to all sellers before it came into operation and did warn about exempting high value item. Tamebay is a useful site that summarises issues and the link to their take on the new procedure is here:

https://tamebay.com/2021/06/amazon-prepaid-return-labels-mandatory-for-all-returns.html

If you only sell on Amazon occasionally you need to remain aware of ongoing changes. The Amazon forums are very useful for this and highlight quickly any issues that arise with changes.

The response you've received about claiming £20 from Hermes is correct. You'll also get the postage cost refunded. Hermes is currently the only return option with Amazon as there's currently a problem with the Royal Mail (sellers unable to download VAT invoices for the labels). Hermes lose way more parcels than the Royal Mail.

It will be interesting to see what my solicitor mate says. He's quite good w these things, and it's not as though amazon is going to pay a solicitor if I lose the AtoZ and send them a letter before claim. So we will see. It's a shame being at the whimsy of a company who can charge a percentage of the value of your goods (so they know they are valuable) but then send them with almost no compensation cover when they have nothing to lose (returns where they are going to return fees anyway).

Of course not.  No need when they already have their own legal department.